[pct-l] Fwd: Re: Food in tents

[Mary Kwart]

 Chris--Just like you can take precautions when you go to a large
city to avoid getting mugged, you learn to take precautions out in the
wilderness. All of the hazards you mention can be avoided. But just
look at the statistics--how many hikers actually are harmed every year
by the things you mentioned? Do you stop driving a car because people
have fatal accidents? If hikers were dying like flies from the hazards
you mentioned, no one would be backpacking in the numbers that they
are today.

I remember while camping one night hearing a comedy show on my radio
and the comedian was joking about going camping with his girlfriend
and how he took it for granted that there were serial killers lurking
in the woods. This was ironic because I was listening to this while in
my tent in the exact circumstance he was freaked out about. It is hard
to believe how paranoid people are about sleeping outside.

I don't know what to say except to try it out--go with friends Carry
an MP3 player or a radio to distract yourself from annoying sounds and
use ear plugs, although a lot of people like to hear the natural
sounds.

You can also educate yourself about avoiding lightning and mountain
lions--there are steps you can take to avoid each one of those. Rock
falls are an act of God--hard to avoid, but not exactly a leading
cause of death and injury for hikers. Maybe hike with a hard hat and
full body armor.

--Fireweed

----- Original Message -----
From: "C" 
To:"Mary Kwart" 
Cc:"pct-l at backcountry.net" 
Sent:Fri, 08 Feb 2013 11:44:04 -0800
Subject:Re: [pct-l] Fwd: Re: Food in tents

 I just want to stay alive..bears or no bears!!! Lol...how bout the
rumors of mountain lions stalking hikers during night hikes, rock
falls, and lighting...
 Can anyone make any suggestions other than stay home :)
 Thanks

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Feb 8, 2013, at 11:36 AM, "Mary Kwart"  wrote:

 > 
 > 
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: "Mary Kwart" 
 > To: "Edward Anderson" 
 > Sent: Fri, 08 Feb 2013 11:33:33 -0800
 > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Food in tents
 > Mendorider:
 > 
 > Yes--I believe that using bear canisters are required in the area
you
 > mentioned now, isn't it? That's what I said--don't hang your food
in
 > an area where bear canisters are required. I also suggested using
the
 > Ursack/Opsack in areas where canisters aren't required. 
 > 
 > I, too, have also seen mother bears send their cubs up after food
that
 > is hung with the counterbalance method on flimsy branches in the
 > Sierra before bear canisters were required. And before the
 > counterbalance method, bears knew that ropes attached to the trees
 > could be messed with to bring down the food bag. My job in 1985 was
 > backpacking to lightning fires in Yosemite and camping out, taking
 > measurements of fire behavior, so we saw our share of bears. I also
 > worked there on lightning fires in 1998-2000 and led beginning
 > backpack trips on the Muir Trail from Tuolumne Meadows--bear
central.
 > Thank God the NPS made canisters a requirement by then.
 > 
 > The reason I tell people to consider hanging their food outside of
 > known repetitive problem areas is I have not seen that level of
 > understanding in any bear population except those in the high
problem
 > areas in the Sierra--not in the north Cascades, the Colorado
Rockies,
 > the Kenai and the Interior of Alaska, the Trinities in Northern
 > California, northern Arizona. I have no experience hiking on the
 > AT--so can't speak to that or other places I have not been.
 > 
 > The URsack/Opsack is a viable alternative--perhaps using one of
those
 > AND hanging it would be the best solution I have been thinking of
 > buying one, although I rarely hang my food outside of required bear
 > canister areas.
 > 
 > --Fireweed
 > 
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: "Edward Anderson" 
 > To:"Mary Kwart" , "pct-l at backcountry.net" 
 > Cc:
 > Sent:Thu, 07 Feb 2013 17:37:11 -0800 (PST)
 > Subject:Re: [pct-l] Food in tents
 > 
 > Hello Mary, While I greatly respect you and all your experience, I
 > have to disagree with you on your advice to hang a food bag. I used
 > to do that in bear country in the Sierra. The incident that I will
 > describe happened about 30 years ago, when bears in the Sierra were
a
 > real problem Having been trained by Rangers that human food is good
 > (Park Rangers used to feed the bears garbage so the park visitors
 > could watch!), they followed hikers to places close to timberline,
 > knowing that there would be food. Here is the incident that I want
to
 > describe: I had taken my son and three of his friends on a
 > fishing-backpack trip starting at Roads End in Sequoia. We hiked up
 > Bubbs Creek to the JMT and then went south over Forester Pass to
fish
 > the lakes in the upper Kern. Since bears were known to be a
problem, I
 > decided to make our first camp high along Bubbs Creek at a place
 > where others had not camped - a place where bears, I thought, were
 > less likely to be. I did a good job of hanging our food bag at
least
 > 15 feet above the ground and had the rope over a small horizontal
 > branch about seven or eight feet from the tree trunk. The last
thing I
 > saw before falling asleep was the food bag silhouetted against the
 > star-studded night sky. Something awakened me during the night.
When I
 > looked up the food bag was gone. As I scrambled to exit my bag the
 > bears left. They had gotten about a third of our food - and that's
a
 > lot when you have three hungry boys along. We were to eat lots of
 > trout. Fortunately the fishing was great. When we returned to Roads
 > End I reported it to the Ranger. He told me that there was a mother
 > bear and her cub(s) who were working Bubbs Creek. She had
apparently
 > taught the cub to climb the trees and then go out on the limbs to
 > release the food bags. Bears are REALLY smart. I no longer hang
 > food. In riding the PCT through N. California, Oregon, and
Washington
 > I saw a lot of hanging bags. I suppose that must work for most
 > hikers. I just used OPSaks and my bear charms. To be extra
cautious, I
 > also camouflaged the OPSaks - since they are transparent, while I
 > realize that bears have poor eyesight, if they just happen to SEE
the
 > food inside, they would tear open the sack. I brought two Garcias
 > during my ride through the Sierra between Horseshoe Meadows and
Sierra
 > City. In them I stored my food and the processed horse feed. I
carried
 > them in knapsacks that took the place of the jumbo pommel bags that
I
 > used on all the rest of the PCT. And they held a greater volume of
 > food. Regarding Ursacks - realize that they do not contain food
 > smells. They are not odor-proof. While bears can't get the food
 > inside, they might be attracted to the smell and your camp
 > location. The same is true of bear canisters. That's why you are
 > required to place them so far away from where you sleep. I have
tested
 > various food packaging, double Ziploks, and OPSaks in my
 > rodent-infested barn in Agua Dulce. They have never gotten into an
 > OPSak. They walk all around them and even over them. If they were
as
 > intelligent as bears they would get in. MendoRider-Hiker FROM:
 > Mary Kwart 
 > TO: pct-l at backcountry.net; douglastow at gmail.com 
 > SENT: Thursday, February 7, 2013 12:48 PM
 > SUBJECT: [pct-l] Food in tents
 > 
 > This is a controversial topic so what I tell the people in a
 > backpacking strategies for success class is:
 > 
 > 1. Always carry food in a bear canister in the places it is
 > required--there is a good reason. I have worked for the Park
Service
 > at Yosemite and regale people with stories of how smart and
 > resourceful the bears are in the Sierra. By the way, bears there
know
 > people use canisters and have learned diversion tactics to get to
food
 > before it is in the canister at night--like when you are preparing
 > dinner. I have experienced bears batting around my bear canister at
 > night, but that has only been in popular campsites when camping
with a
 > group Using bear canisters in these areas saves bears lives.
 > 
 > 2. When in doubt, in places other than where you have to carry a
bear
 > canister by law, carry a lightweight rope to hang your food and
hang
 > it as often as you feel you must--That may be every night. Be aware
of
 > indications of bear activity--bear scat, bear paw prints and talk
to
 > others on the trail to get information and let that and common
sense
 > guide you. When camping near a popular area like by a lake a short
 > distance from a trailhead, take extra precautions or camp miles
away
 > from these areas If you are caching food for any length of time or
 > leaving your camp for a day hike, it also makes sense to hang your
 > food or use an Ursack.
 > 
 > 3. The longer you hike in the areas where bear canisters are not
 > required by law, the more your decision to protect your food from
 > critters will be informed by your experience, hence the need to
hang
 > your food will diminish because you have learned to be more aware
of
 > bear indicators. That is why people with a lot of hiking experience
 > keep their food in their tents at night with no problem for
 > years.Until you reach that level of knowledge, by all means hang
your
 > food, or use an Ursack.
 > 
 > It is hard to convince new hikers that in 99% of all long distance
 > hiking areas, the animals have better things to do than target you
and
 > the small amount of food you carry. Once again, I impress on people
 > the need to carry bear canisters where required by law and to hang
 > their food if they have the least bit of anxiety. or will be
leaving
 > their food unattended. 
 > 
 > --Fireweed
 > 
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