[pct-l] Pee as bear deterrent?

[Maxine Weyant]

Brick said:
Comparing one Old Wives Tail to another Old Wives Tail is a fair comparison.

OpSacks were shown in a good test to not prevent canines from smelling
their contents. Bears probably have just as good a sense of smell as a
dog.

One google search brought up a Department of Fish and Game page, as
well several other that said Moth Balls actually attract bears. Yet
another Old Wives Tail.

Personal experience is not generally a large enough sample size to
validate a method, even if you like and respect the source of the
personal experience, as many of us did Mendo Rider.

Apologies to Old Wives.

Brick, the only apologies you owe to Old Wives is your reference to 
their tails, and your comparison one old wive's tail to another. Neither old 
nor young women take kindly to comparisons of their tails. Their "tales" would 
be another matter, altogether ;)
To the newbies re: the pee issue. Deer and rodents want salt, and our pee and 
sweat are full of salt.
Some examples: 
A woman I met north of Rainy Pass warned me that, the year before, her son was almost 
knocked over by a deer trying to get his urine "straight from the tap"
near the place I was camped.
A woman on the JMT had the sweat stains on her backpack straps chewed by a 
marmot, and her daughter's hiking pole straps had been chewed.  
A friend of mine hung his sweaty T-shirt out to dry in WA, and a deer chewed a 
bunch of holes in it. He still liked to wear it hiking, it was like his shirt
had been blessed in some way. He too had a friend who'd been accosted by a deer 
going after his pee, while he was still peeing.
I usually try to pee on rocks in high alpine country because of the fragile ecosystems
but one night in the Alpine Lakes section in WA I set up camp in the dark on a bluff.
It was foggy when I got up to pee in the middle of the night, so I didn't venture too
far front the tent and peed in a patch of sandy gravel about 10-20' from my tent. I later 
heard and felt a loud series of thuds that kept me up for awhile. It was a big mule deer with
large antlers.  The next morning I saw that he'd excavated a pit about a foot deep and 
2 feet across where I'd peed the night before. Not so great for the terrain.

I don't think black bears care about your pee. They might sniff things to checkout what 
information they can glean from pee-mail left on trees, etc. But they're all about the
food smells. In areas where the bears are habituated to humans, they might go after anything
that smells good to them, which is why you should put lip balm, lotions, and toothpaste 
in bear canisters. If they're not habituated, they really don't want to be near you, though 
you should still practice good bear "hygiene" and put anything remotely smelly in an odor proof 
bag inside a bag that you've hung, or an Ursack, which I use because I can't throw worth a damn.
I can't say I know enough about Grizzlies to be able to apply what I've said to them, so don't 
assume what I've said applies to the CDT.  There are potentially some grizzlies in the 
last 36 miles of the PCT (Pasayten Wilderness Area), but I've never heard of a PCT hiker who's 
encountered one. By then, thru-hikers are cranking out the miles and are out of there in a few days.
Slower hikers on the side trails might be more likely to encounter wildlife in the Pasayten. 
Like moose, wolverines, even wolves, which have been re-introduced into the area.

I know folks actually buy wolf and other "predator" pee to keep deer and other animals out of their garden,
but that's more about territorial behavior and certain species-specific patterns and less about 
what happens when hikers visit in someone else's domain in the backcountry.

And moth balls--well, small rodents might stay away because naphtha and phenolic compounds are toxic, 
but larger mammals like bears and cougars won't be deterred if there are more desirable smells in the area.