[pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 73, Issue 1
Todd McMahon
isawtman at gmail.com
Thu Jan 2 22:21:25 CST 2014
Nick, Biking on the PCT is illegal
It's obvious that in all documentation about the PCT is
that it's intended users are hikers and horseback riders.
Furthermore, the United States Forest Service must
manage the trail for its intended users. Adding a swarm
of Mountain Bikers to the trail is not managing it for its
intended users.
So what if the Forest Service mishandled the Closure Order.
What difference does that make? Can't they just make another
closure order? And if they do make another closure, the fact
remains that the PCT is intended for hikers and horseback riders.
The fact remains that the PCT was not designed and built for
Mountain Biking.
Are you and the rest of the PCTRI folks that anal that you can't
let some other users enjoy a trail in peace? Again, this is the
worst possible public relations disaster that mountain biking has
ever had. It's such a disaster that most of the Mountain Biking
Community doesn't want to discuss it anymore.
On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 12:00 PM, <pct-l-request at backcountry.net> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Winter Hiking the Mojave? (Ron Graybill)
> 2. Trail Apps (Michael Irving)
> 3. Re: Winter Hiking the Mojave? (gary_schenk at verizon.net)
> 4. Re: Trail closures (Diane Soini)
> 5. PCTRI response to the Forest Service upholding PCT mountain
> biking closure (Nick Thelen)
> 6. ORM-D stickers available (Robert Henry)
> 7. Notes from Puppy (Caroline P)
> 8. Notes from Puppy (Caroline P)
> 9. Re: PCTRI response to the Forest Service upholding PCT
> mountain biking closure (Dan Welch)
> 10. Re: Winter Hiking the Mojave? (marmot marmot)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 10:38:16 -0800
> From: Ron Graybill <rgraybill44 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Winter Hiking the Mojave?
> To: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAEnMNWVK-MaBS5P0ViWdBjj0Rk-dsafXbgJPgKFwLx6T29Bz2A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Would winter hiking be feasible from Highway 138 (Mile 517) up to Highway
> 58 (Mile 566)? There is a patch that gets up to 6000 feet or more, so I
> suppose it depends on snow levels for that part?
> Ron "Slo Charger" Graybill
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 14:33:25 -0800
> From: Michael Irving <michaeljirving at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Trail Apps
> To: "<pct-l at backcountry.net>" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <6BA41AE6-19AA-4ABC-8799-86813AE41333 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi all,
>
> Someone recently asked me about apps that I use on the trail, so I figured
> I'd post it here also to share and also to learn what I'm missing out on
> from other's experiences.
>
> Now...I realize that not everyone likes to geek out on technology on the
> trail and I totally get that and respect that, but I'm not one of those.
> :-)
>
> So, with the spirit of HYOH and YMMV in mind, here's my list...what am I
> missing out by not using??? (iOS platform is what I use)
>
> Here are the apps I use.
>
>
> Navigation:
>
> Gaia GPS: (Just switched, I used to use GPS Kit) I use this to monitor my
> mileage and stats and to track my trail. Less useful/needed on a trail
> like the PCT as all the info is readily available, but I still like to do
> it if I have the battery power.
>
> Topo Maps: For looking at maps of the surrounding area outside the tight
> range of Halfmile's maps. Like the concentric circles that show mileage
> distances as the crow flies from current position. Download all the
> quad-maps needed prior to hike and you don't need data on the trail.
>
> Peak.ar: To identify surrounding peaks - their names, elevations and
> distances.
>
> Halfmile PCT: The best app ever. Love the exact point on the trail to
> monitor progress and distances to next points of interest.
>
> Guthook's Hiking Guides: Good backup for more info that might not always
> be on Halfmile.
>
> PCTHYOH: Self explanatory I think.
>
> Star Walk: To identify stars and planets at night.
>
> SPOT: For my family/trail angels to track my progress to support my hike
> and for emergency.
>
> Reference:
>
> Kindle: To host my Pacific Crest Trail Data Book and my NOLS Wilderness
> First Aid guide
>
> US Fires: Reports on forest fire status
>
>
> Photos:
>
> Native camera app: easy to access from the home screen short cut. Use the
> panorama feature a lot to get sweeping vistas.
>
> Pro HDR: My favorite photo app that takes care of high contrast pictures
> that either wash out the bright sky blues or dark shadows. It takes 2 pics
> about a second apart so you have to hold the phone still.
>
> I prop on things like trees and rocks or I rest it on my trekking poles
> that are leaning together like a Tri-pod with 2 legs. I also use a plastic
> Joby GP1-A1EN Gorillapod Flexible Tripod with a Selens Cell Phone iPhone
> Clip Holder For Tripod Stand with Standard 1/4" Hole. These 2 together only
> weigh 65 grams/2.3oz.
>
> Sometimes I'll jam my trekking pole in the ground or between rocks and
> then "clamp" the legs of thee gorillapod around the handle as a defacto
> tripod.
>
> I also use a stickpic on my trekking pole sometimes too.
>
> SlowShutter: For cool moving water effects.
>
> VSCOcam: Cool picture effects
>
> TiltShiftGen: Cool tilt-shift effects and to create tight depth of field
> shots that you typically can only get on an SLR.
>
> 360: For cool spherical 360 degree pictures for peaks and things.
>
> Remoto Lite: To use 1 iPhone (connected via Bluetooth to another iPhone)
> as a remote shutter control for multiple controlled activation of many
> pictures to ensure a good one.
>
> Pano: I used to use this for stitched panoramas but this feature in the
> newer iPhones is better so I don't use this anymore.
>
> Diptic: for collage pictures
>
> Skitch: To annotate pictures.
>
> ColorSplash: to have black & white picture with a customized splash of
> color.
>
> PhotoFunia: Some really fun and creative treatments for pictures.
>
> TimeLapse: A super cool timelapse app for sun rises and clouds moving or
> camp set up or other fun things.
>
>
> Video:
>
> FiLMiC Pro 2: For much more control of video settings and for shooting at
> lower than full HD if I want to sent video over weak Internet connections.
>
> Native Camera: Love the new slo-mo mode that shoots 120 frames per second
> to get crisp slo-mo effects.
>
> TiltShift Video: Tilt shift effects for video
>
> RotateVideo: to rotate videos that accidentally are shot in the wrong
> aspect. (When I occasionally hit record before my phone has auto rotated
> from portrait to landscape)
>
> AudioMemos: To record audio clips to overlay with my videos that include
> pictures after the hike.
>
> GoPro: As a screen and controller for my GoPro
>
> That's about all I can think of. If I could use only 1 app, it would be
> Pro HDR.
>
> And what do I use to power all this? A Suntactics sCharger-5 (8.3 oz -
> $140) and an Anker Astro3E 10,000 mAh dual USB battery (about 5 smart phone
> charges at 8.5 oz and $40)
>
> Have fun!
>
>
> GoalTech
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 17:51:54 -0600 (CST)
> From: gary_schenk at verizon.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Winter Hiking the Mojave?
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <13325243.1178738.1388533914205.JavaMail.root at vznit170134>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Three of us did that bit last February, on President's Weekend. We
> enjoyed it very much. The aqueduct faucet at Cottonwood Bridge was turned
> off, but we found water at Tyler Horse Canyon. Very nice campsite there, as
> well. We could have gotten water from the open aqueduct earlier in the
> hike, too.
>
> Unless there's been some sort of major crazy snow storm, all of Section E
> is doable in winter. We've done all of it over the last couple of years in
> March and February as a series of short backpacks and dayhikes.
>
> No heat, and more water available. It's a good time to do it. Even hiking
> through the windmills is kinda cool. The wild horses are a treat as well.
>
> Gary
>
>
> On 12/31/13, Ron Graybill wrote:
>
> Would winter hiking be feasible from Highway 138 (Mile 517) up to Highway
> 58 (Mile 566)? There is a patch that gets up to 6000 feet or more, so I
> suppose it depends on snow levels for that part?
> Ron "Slo Charger" Graybill
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 18:06:56 -0800
> From: Diane Soini <dianesoini at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Trail closures
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <746EE95F-B935-46DF-BC72-A8652F34E8AE at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Won't Anitra of the PCTA be marking or suggesting a detour? Seems
> that is what has happened after the recent fires, such as for the
> Sheep Fire detour and the Deep Creek detour a few years ago. I hiked
> the Deep Creek detour and it was well marked and actually quite nice.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 19:18:05 -0800 (PST)
> From: Nick Thelen <nthelen03 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] PCTRI response to the Forest Service upholding PCT
> mountain biking closure
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <1388546285.93737.YahooMailNeo at web121802.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Mr Murray wrote n response:
> [Nick wrote] I'm confused Mr. Murray....what "ruling" are you talking
> about? And what "resources"?
> and "money" is being spent?
> =====================================================
>
> The "ruling" that you want to change, that Congress meant what it said
> when it created the PCT.Resources??
> How about attorney's to give opinions on the legality of USFS positions?
> How about time spent writing letters?
> by all these bikers? How about the paid people in biker organizations
> spending their time on the issue.?
> How about YOU spending your time writing on blogs?The fact of the matter
> is that you wanted a reconsideration,?
> and you GOT a reconsideration. But now, only a few months later, you are
> not happy that you got your reconsideration,?
> because YOU LOST. And your biker pals are pissed at you for misleading
> them.You say it is tenuous, but you get?
> no traction, you get no results.
>
> ====================
> [Nick wrote] There is no "ruling"
> ====================
>
> Right. The decision by the USFS does not exist. It is legal to ride on the
> PCT.
> Any other "truths" you want to pass onto your buddies????
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'll make this easy for you Mr. Murray as it is clear you do not?
> understand the basis of our argument.
>
> Prior to this past year most people took for granted that mountain biking?
> on the PCT was illegal. This belief stems from the 1988 closure order,
> which?
> was typed up by three Forest Service employees about a year after the
> Forest?
> Service headquarters in Washington, D.C., refused a plea by PCT advocates
> to?
> issue a regulation forbidding bicycles.
>
> The point is that we have an extremely strong argument that the closure
> order violated?
> a law requiring that the public be invited to comment before the closure
> took place.?
>
> We also believe that the Forest Service's own lawyers in Washington have
> told the
> Forest Service that the closure order is legally invalid...I do not say
> this lightly.
>
> Basically, the current situation has moved to the middlegame (if you play
> chess you will?
> understand). As you have read from the Forest Service's letter from
> several weeks ago,?
> it is not going to budge ?on its view that the order is legal and
> bicycling on the PCT is illegal.?
>
> We at PCTRI remain convinced that we have a strong legal argument that the
> closure is not legal.
>
> Agencies almost always defend their rules. However, courts often tell them
> that they are incorrect.?
> Someday this dispute may get to court and we'll find out who's right.?
>
> I see it as a 70/30 chance in our favor...again, I do not say this lightly
>
> It's not wise to assume that the closure order is legal and mountain
> bikers are violating the law.?
> It seems to lead to the desire to confront mountain bikers as scofflaws...
>
> Let the Forest Service and the courts figure this out. Taking matters into
> your own hands,?
> beyond having a conversation, is legally risky...catch my drift y0...
>
> Have a wonderful New Year - I, myself, am about to crack a lovely bottle
> of Black Tuesday RIS...
>
> Love,?
> Nick
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 20:27:10 -0800
> From: Robert Henry <rrh.henry at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] ORM-D stickers available
> To: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <CAEYr_8=
> 1kaekCrs0ANyEWpkLx5otVrMgOicu71om-A5enX1viA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> For my through hike in 2012 I bought a roll of ORM-D stickers to slap on
> the outside of boxes that contained canister stove fuel that my support
> team was
> surface mailing to me along the trail via USPS. I think I bought a
> roll of 250, which was 244 more than I actually used: I ended up
> getting most of my isobutane stove fuel by purchasing from stores,
> hand deliveries, or fished from hiker boxes.
>
> If you'd like some of these, please email me OFF LIST with your paper
> mail address and guesstimated number of stickers you want, and as a
> service to the community I will paper mail them to you.
>
> I'm told you don't actually need stickers, but can make a crude
> approximation in felt-tip pen. I'm also told that the USPS may be
> changing their labeling requirements to be more in line with the UN
> requirements for hazmat shipping.
>
> Robert "Collector" Henry
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 08:15:23 -0800
> From: Caroline P <littlepackage at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Notes from Puppy
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <82B0C422-5DEB-44CF-A192-E3961D7345DC at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Hello all!
>
> It?s Puppy, class of 2013. I hope you are all well. I have a few things to
> mention?
>
> 1) If any of you live along the I-5 corridor or Highway 101 (and
> especially if you live in Grants Pass or Brookings, Oregon) and have a safe
> place for me to park my van for a night or two, *please* get in touch!
>
> 2) I am giving away a *brand new* SOTO OD-1R stove on my blog at
> http://cap.little-package.com/blog/2013/12/soto-od-1r-stove-giveawayCheck it out!
>
> 3) I have a brand new, unworn pair of Brooks Cascadia shoes, bright green,
> women?s size 10.5 for sale, $62 shipped within the USA.
>
> Please reply off-list. My email is littlepackage at gmail or you can reply
> to the email listed on PCT-L
>
> Thanks all and HAPPY NEW YEAR! 2014!!
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2013 15:00:08 -0800
> From: Caroline P <littlepackage at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Notes from Puppy
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <FFF876BF-DD21-4C24-96AF-4E5CA08EDE40 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Hello all!
>
> It?s Puppy, class of 2013. I hope you are all well. I have a few things to
> mention?
>
> 1) If any of you live along the I-5 corridor or Highway 101 (and
> especially if you live in Grants Pass or Brookings, Oregon) and have a safe
> place for me to park my van for a night or two, *please* get in touch!
>
> 2) I am giving away a *brand new* SOTO OD-1R stove on my blog at
> http://cap.little-package.com/blog/2013/12/soto-od-1r-stove-giveawayCheck it out!
>
> 3) I have a brand new, unworn pair of Brooks Cascadia shoes, bright green,
> women?s size 10.5 for sale, $62 shipped within the USA.
>
> Please reply off-list. My email is littlepackage at gmail or you can reply
> to the email listed on PCT-L
>
> Thanks all and HAPPY NEW YEAR! 2014!!
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 09:58:57 -0500
> From: "Dan Welch" <welchenergy at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCTRI response to the Forest Service upholding
> PCT mountain biking closure
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <000d01cf0702$00ca9840$025fc8c0$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> << I see it as a 70/30 chance in our favor...again, I do not say this
> lightly >>
>
> Keep dreamin' Nick. Have a nice New Year. May you find some new lists to
> troll on soon. (and hopefully stop being a PITA in ours)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of Nick Thelen
> Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2013 10:18 PM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] PCTRI response to the Forest Service upholding PCT
> mountain
> biking closure
>
> Mr Murray wrote n response:
> [Nick wrote] I'm confused Mr. Murray....what "ruling" are you talking
> about?
> And what "resources" and "money" is being spent?
> =====================================================
>
> The "ruling" that you want to change, that Congress meant what it said when
> it created the PCT.Resources? How about attorney's to give opinions on the
> legality of USFS positions? How about time spent writing letters by all
> these bikers? How about the paid people in biker organizations spending
> their time on the issue. How about YOU spending your time writing on
> blogs?The fact of the matter is that you wanted a reconsideration, and you
> GOT a reconsideration. But now, only a few months later, you are not happy
> that you got your reconsideration, because YOU LOST. And your biker pals
> are
> pissed at you for misleading them.You say it is tenuous, but you get no
> traction, you get no results.
>
> ====================
> [Nick wrote] There is no "ruling"
> ====================
>
> Right. The decision by the USFS does not exist. It is legal to ride on the
> PCT.
> Any other "truths" you want to pass onto your buddies????
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------
>
> I'll make this easy for you Mr. Murray as it is clear you do not understand
> the basis of our argument.
>
> Prior to this past year most people took for granted that mountain biking
> on
> the PCT was illegal. This belief stems from the 1988 closure order, which
> was typed up by three Forest Service employees about a year after the
> Forest
> Service headquarters in Washington, D.C., refused a plea by PCT advocates
> to
> issue a regulation forbidding bicycles.
>
> The point is that we have an extremely strong argument that the closure
> order violated a law requiring that the public be invited to comment before
> the closure took place.?
>
> We also believe that the Forest Service's own lawyers in Washington have
> told the Forest Service that the closure order is legally invalid...I do
> not
> say this lightly.
>
> Basically, the current situation has moved to the middlegame (if you play
> chess you will understand). As you have read from the Forest Service's
> letter from several weeks ago, it is not going to budge ?on its view that
> the order is legal and bicycling on the PCT is illegal.?
>
> We at PCTRI remain convinced that we have a strong legal argument that the
> closure is not legal.
>
> Agencies almost always defend their rules. However, courts often tell them
> that they are incorrect. Someday this dispute may get to court and we'll
> find out who's right.?
>
> I see it as a 70/30 chance in our favor...again, I do not say this lightly
>
> It's not wise to assume that the closure order is legal and mountain bikers
> are violating the law. It seems to lead to the desire to confront mountain
> bikers as scofflaws...
>
> Let the Forest Service and the courts figure this out. Taking matters into
> your own hands, beyond having a conversation, is legally risky...catch my
> drift y0...
>
> Have a wonderful New Year - I, myself, am about to crack a lovely bottle of
> Black Tuesday RIS...
>
> Love,
> Nick
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 1 Jan 2014 07:50:52 -0800
> From: marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Winter Hiking the Mojave?
> To: "gary_schenk at verizon.net" <gary_schenk at verizon.net>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <BLU406-EAS183F03F5C6135B259D375A7C8C80 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I attempted a hike from 58 Willow Springs rd north to Walker Pass a few
> years ago between Christmas and New Years Choose to bail because the
> water at Golden Oak was frozen (figured Blue Bird was worse)and the trail
> was covered in ice. But this year it is so warm I think if you willing to
> carry water that whole area from 138 north to 178 can be hiked. There are
> lots of ATVers from whom to yogi water. Have a great hike. Reminding
> everyone. ALDHAWEST is having a winter ruck in Feb at Casade Locks--PCT/CDT
> info ,slide shows, help figuring out how to do the trails. Look at our
> website for dates/registration we are all about helping people hike long
> trails. Marmot
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Dec 31, 2013, at 3:52 PM, gary_schenk at verizon.net wrote:
> >
> > Three of us did that bit last February, on President's Weekend. We
> enjoyed it very much. The aqueduct faucet at Cottonwood Bridge was turned
> off, but we found water at Tyler Horse Canyon. Very nice campsite there, as
> well. We could have gotten water from the open aqueduct earlier in the
> hike, too.
> >
> > Unless there's been some sort of major crazy snow storm, all of Section
> E is doable in winter. We've done all of it over the last couple of years
> in March and February as a series of short backpacks and dayhikes.
> >
> > No heat, and more water available. It's a good time to do it. Even
> hiking through the windmills is kinda cool. The wild horses are a treat as
> well.
> >
> > Gary
> >
> >
> > On 12/31/13, Ron Graybill wrote:
> >
> > Would winter hiking be feasible from Highway 138 (Mile 517) up to Highway
> > 58 (Mile 566)? There is a patch that gets up to 6000 feet or more, so I
> > suppose it depends on snow levels for that part?
> > Ron "Slo Charger" Graybill
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
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>
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 73, Issue 1
> ************************************
>
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