>> A Vons is a pretty big store. Ray's Food Place, I have no idea, your guess is as >>good as mine, as they don't have them in my part of the country. IIRC, Ray's is a branch of Kroger. We shopped in one in Desert Palm last summer, while watching the Mountain Fire burn and waiting to get into Idylwild. If it's the same store chain, it is full service. Mango