[pct-l] Permits 2017

Sabrina Harrison troopharrison at gmail.com
Wed Sep 28 14:24:17 CDT 2016 

As are many of you, I'm anxiously awaiting JMT Reinhold's wit and wisdom on this

Hacker 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 28, 2016, at 1:25 PM, Cody B <moonbeams13 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> James,
> 
> I agree that the system needs improvements, particularly surrounding alpine
> environments which take much longer to rebound from environmental impact
> than most ecosystems at lower elevations. This is one of those annoying
> little intersections of science and policy that will probably never have a
> perfect solution and requires an ever-evolving approach. The Southern
> Terminus permit limit is a good starting point because it addresses the
> majority of hikers and doesn't dictate things like how fast one has to
> move. It is minimally intrusive to people's plans compared to quotas that
> may be implemented along the way. I think that there are a couple ways this
> could be approached in the Sierra, perhaps by utilizing semi-flexible
> permitting for that section (say ability to enter within a certain range of
> dates depending upon your hiking speed cuz as we all know, things never go
> according to plan), but there is still a lot of work that needs to be done
> before a mid-way restriction could be responsibly implemented.
> 
> Wikipedia
> 
>> On Sep 28, 2016 1:02 PM, "James Vesely" <veselyjames at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Interesting discussion but it fails to resolve the issue of overuse and
>> potential negative effects of PCT hikers who are entering high use
>> wilderness areas such as in Cleveland/Descanso, Mt. San Jacinto
>> wilderness,  Sierra Nevada mountains and others.
>> 
>> Large slugs of PCT hikers are entering National Forest, and National Park
>> regions that have very stringent entry quota permits, some of which are
>> almost impossible to obtain outside of having a "PCT hiking permit".    I
>> am aware that not all PCT hikers with "PCT permits" that start at the
>> Mexican boarder make it to "permit required areas" but a substantial number
>> of hikers that do make it, seem to have a carte blanche pass that allows
>> them to bypass all entry point quotas for any given day of the week in at
>> any point on the trail system.  Quotas that were setup to reduce impact and
>> crowding are basically worthless when 50 or more (assuming 50/day
>> separation) are allowed to enter at their convenience.
>> 
>> A good example of this is what happens in the Sierra Nevada mountains
>> during the short hiking season.   In the past PCT hikers were fewer in
>> number and a majority of them would normally have completed the southern
>> Sierra's by the end of June.  In the year 1993 when the golden spike was
>> hammered into the ground to commemorate the PCT, 35 people had completed
>> the trail and in the year 2016 the number was 647.   The total number of
>> permits issued in 2015 was 4453 and this does not include the hikers, whom,
>> as Brick stated do not bother to get thru-hike permits. The number of PCT
>> hikers will no doubt continue to rise.
>> 
>> I am a big fan of the PCT and although my attempt at hiking the PCT in 1978
>> failed, I have always thought I would give it another try.  In the mean
>> time, I still love to do local hikes in the Sierra Nevada mountains and
>> during one of my hikes last year I saw first hand evidence of huge crowds
>> of hikers (> half were PCT) that I have never seen before.  We all love
>> backpacking for different reasons but I believe the main reason so many of
>> us enjoy the sport is for the solitude it can offer and for the amazing
>> uncrowded pristine scenery it can provide.  Having uncontrolled numbers of
>> people entering sensitive back-country wilderness, in what was once a
>> thoughtfully regulated quota system, can not only damage sensitive
>> wilderness areas but also make the backpacking experience much less
>> meaningful.
>> 
>> The impact of large numbers of hikers that basically game the system and
>> have legal uncontrolled access to any wilderness area at any time, at any
>> place throughout the summer will have to, someday, be addressed before it
>> destroys all the main reasons we all enjoy the sport of backpacking so
>> much.   I would love to hear input from the backpack community on whether
>> they believe this is an issue or not and what should be done if anything.
>> 
>> 
>> Concerned hiker.
>> 
>>> On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 11:01 PM, Cody B <moonbeams13 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Richard -
>>> 
>>> Permits are required in Yosemite, but not necessarily PCT permits. You
>>> could have had a wilderness permit specifically for that are issued by
>> the
>>> NPS instead.
>>> 
>>> Wikipedia
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 11:44 PM, Richard Brinkman <richardb10 at live.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> In Yosemite, I was asked by a Ranger to show my PCT thru-hiker permit.
>>>> Thank goodness I had it, albeit folded in a ziplock.
>>>> 
>>>> Roadwalker, '15
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of Cody B
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2016 3:39 PM
>>>> To: Robert E. Riess
>>>> Cc: PCT-L
>>>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Permits 2017
>>>> 
>>>> BR,
>>>> 
>>>> The permit limits are in place to protect the fragile environments and
>>>> ecosystems that the Pacific Crest Trail passes through from overuse by
>>>> hikers. They are there for a very good reason and it is indeed backed
>> by
>>>> research on environmental impact. The first several hundred miles are
>>>> particularly vulnerable as there are very limited water resources and
>>> many
>>>> of them cannot support hundreds of hikers draining them in addition to
>>>> supplying the necessary water for the native plants and animals.
>>>> 
>>>> It is possible to hike the PCT legally without a long-distance permit
>>>> published by the PCTA, but that does require seeking out each permit
>>>> individually and doing the research on your own. The permit issued by
>> the
>>>> PCTA is actually a collection of permits by the National Parks Service,
>>>> State Parks Systems, Forest Service, and others that allows you to pass
>>>> through the entire trail corridor without seeking out each necessary
>>> permit
>>>> individually. It is a service provided to us and there is a limit on
>> that
>>>> service so that the trail is still there, beautiful, and most
>>> importantly,
>>>> usable for years to come.
>>>> 
>>>> I saw a lot of disregard for permits on the trail this summer and it
>>>> concerns me. People ranted about "the government trying to control
>> their
>>>> rights saying when they can or can't hike" (I would like to note that
>> the
>>>> PCTA is not a government organization) while not paying any regard to
>> the
>>>> reason those permits are there.
>>>> 
>>>> PLEASE be conscientious about this. If we aim to be stewards of the
>>>> environment and participate in LNT practices then paying mind to the
>>> permit
>>>> system and the permit limits is extremely important. They are not there
>>> to
>>>> limit us. They are there to protect us and the beauty we love to
>> indulge
>>>> ourselves in.
>>>> 
>>>> Passionately,
>>>> 
>>>> Wikipedia
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 5:19 PM, Robert E. Riess <robert.riess at cox.net
>>> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Congratulations to the Class of 2016, who were lucky enough to draw a
>>>>> PCTA Long Distance Permit starting at the border, and who had no
>>>>> ADZPCTKO to inspire and enlighten them. I am saddened by what I hope
>>>>> is a temporary halt to the world-class hiking event which for 17
>> great
>>>>> years gave so much to so many, provided by so few, and who did it so
>>>>> very, very well. I am thankful for the opportunity to have partaken.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Certainly, a 2016 PCT through hike is an accomplishment of great
>> pride
>>>>> and satisfaction.  Some were not so fortunate.  Some from overseas
>>>>> could not get a permit to conform with their travel arrangements and
>>>>> just gave up on their goal of hiking the PCT in 2016.  At least one
>>>>> hiker known to me had to cancel his airline ticket and rebook to
>>>>> conform with his PCTA permit at an additional cost of over $1000.
>>>>> Some were scared to death of being stopped by the US Forest Service
>>>>> because their only chance to hike did not conform with the date of
>>>>> their PCTA Long Distance Permit.  They were in genuine fear of having
>>>> their passports confiscated for “illegal hiking.”
>>>>> Many US and foreign hikers had permits which were at variance with
>> the
>>>>> actual dates of their starts, and many more hiked without a permit of
>>>>> any kind.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> In 2015 and 2016, the PCTA, on its own authority as trail manager,
>>>>> established a daily quota of 50 Long Distance Permits starting at the
>>>>> border during the height of through-hiker season.  I was told by Beth
>>>>> Boyst, the PCT Trail Manager for the US Forest Service, that the
>> limit
>>>>> of
>>>>> 50 permits per day was her idea, stating also that she arrived at the
>>>>> decision based upon exhaustive research into the increase in hiker
>>>>> numbers experienced during the years 2012-2014, and their attendant
>>>> impact on the
>>>>> first 100 miles of the PCT.   This confused me in that one agency
>>> limited
>>>>> the number of permits and another took credit for the decision, so on
>>>>> April
>>>>> 14 of this year, I submitted a Freedom of Information Act request
>>>>> asking for all documentation discussing or supporting the 50 permit
>>>> daily limit.
>>>>> The US Forest Service reply to my FOIA request providing 4 pages of
>>>>> responsive documents was received on July 7.  I will provide my
>>>>> original FOIA request and the Forest Service’s response by email to
>>>>> anyone who requests them.  I have read these documents many times,
>> and
>>>>> I have found no basis whatsoever for limiting daily hiking permits.
>>>>> This is the official response of the government of the United States
>>>>> to a valid request for information.  By law, it is exhaustive and
>>>>> complete.  There is no more information to consider.  No anecdotes,
>> no
>>>>> feelings, no opinions, no guesses.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> So, with the 2016 PCT through hiking season drawing to a close, there
>>>>> will be many hikers with recent experiences on the trail who may be
>>>>> willing to share their experiences and offer their opinions regarding
>>>>> the necessity and efficacy of the 2015-2016 permit limitations.  IMO,
>>>>> this is necessary if the PCT hiking community wants to influence the
>>>>> 2017 hiking season on the PCT, either in favor of permit limitations,
>>>>> or opposed to them.  You should not expect to be asked for your
>>>>> experiences and opinions by the US Forest Service or the PCTA.  Some
>>>>> of us recall how the permit limitations were implemented for the past
>>>>> 2 years.  There was no public discussion, there was no opportunity
>> for
>>>>> hikers to state their positions, and there was no advance notice.
>>>>> Hikers first became aware of the 50 permit per day limitation
>>>>> simultaneously with the opening of the issuance of permits by the
>>>>> PCTA.  There is every indication there will be more of the same in
>>>> 2017.  Congratulations to the Class of 2016.  Good Luck to the Class of
>>>>> 2017.   BR
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
>> matter
>>>> and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss
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