From r-sturm at msn.com  Tue May  1 12:23:45 2018
From: r-sturm at msn.com (Richard Sturm)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2018 17:23:45 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 111, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1525194000.57634.pct-l@backcountry.net>
References: <mailman.3.1525194000.57634.pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <CY1PR14MB04747001522F81AAED309FF6F7810@CY1PR14MB0474.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

I am with the other fellow who prefers the sounds of silence. Our civilization is full of noise, noise, and more noise.That?s what the back country is for to get away from it all. Not to mention the safety aspects of missing a telltale rattle of a nearby  snake, a hiker approaching you from behind, or somebody?s cry for help in the distance.


Sent from my iPhone

> On May 1, 2018, at 12:00, "pct-l-request at backcountry.net" <pct-l-request at backcountry.net> wrote:
> 
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>   1. Re: favorite hiking music (Scott Diamond)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2018 17:37:09 +0000
> From: Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com>
> Cc: Pct Mailing List <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] favorite hiking music
> Message-ID:
>    <CAH8m_auL8zEgmQSGO_muYBX2QbHt-jzETZr9hMw9wWpTehyTJQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> I made a hiking specific playlist. On my list (yes I know many are corny)
> 
> Take a Walk - Passion Pit
> On Top of the World - Imagine Dragon (listened to on Whitney)
> My Body - Young the Giant
> The Distance - Cake
> The Wanderer - Johnny Cash
> Wagon Wheel - Old Crow (on of my fav but better for AT)
> When Johnny comes marching home
> Walking Man - James Taylor
> Go where you wanna go - Mamas and papas
> What's Up? - Four Non-Blondes (used in movie Wild)
> 
> ?  -Rover
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
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From mike.sm64 at gmail.com  Tue May  1 12:36:32 2018
From: mike.sm64 at gmail.com (Mike Smith)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2018 10:36:32 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Favorite hiking music
Message-ID: <CAEb7wVJywprsN-NvtNVgHeteCWD+ccMfOC4KaDuSsQtvgO1D8Q@mail.gmail.com>

I don't listen to music while I hike, but am recalling an incident when it
mattered: I was approaching Donahue Pass from the south. The gentle
approach, as you might know, is a symphony of Indian Paintbrush flowers in
spring with rounded granite outcroppings and lush grass. I came up on a
hiker and could see he was wearing ear buds. As I passed by he offered his
view on his current selection: "Country and Western is not cutting it." I
would have totally agreed.
--Best to all, Lightfoot (2003 - 2012)

From twizstix at gmail.com  Tue May  1 12:37:53 2018
From: twizstix at gmail.com (Karl Jorgensen)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2018 11:37:53 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] the sounds of silence
Message-ID: <CAAYim0d12eyfLUz51re5ZwPq1GbERKP8YpJ=70GtobxnxVqAUg@mail.gmail.com>

I am one also who really enjoyed getting away from all the noise that our
civilization has created.  When I hiked the trail in 2006 it was over 200
miles up the trail that I finally pulled my iPod out and started to listen
to it.  I am a classical music lover and so I had a couple of cards that I
was carrying that were loaded with music.   But I found I did not really
listen to it much until after I arrived in Oregon.   I found. that I missed
the sounds of nature when I had my ears plugged.

jorgy

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Tue May  1 12:41:47 2018
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2018 17:41:47 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Favorite Hiking Music
Message-ID: <32a44067785b4c878764773dac9a4467@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

As to trail etiquette for those who do listen to music while hiking, please consider taking out an ear bud when you approach another hiker. This allows for the normal exchange of pleasantries between fellow travelers. 

I have been sectioning southbound and tend to run into 40+ thurs a day. When someone approaches with both ear buds in place it sends the message that "I don't want/need to talk to you and it will be a bother if you try." That may not be the case, but it certainly inhibits conversation. I really do appreciate when a hiker disengages from their music--even with one ear--which signals acknowledgment that another human being is approaching and that you are available for a friendly 'hello' or inquiry about upcoming water sources.

Herb

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Tue May  1 13:17:06 2018
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2018 18:17:06 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Favorite Hiking Music
In-Reply-To: <32a44067785b4c878764773dac9a4467@MALAWI.SJLM.local>
References: <32a44067785b4c878764773dac9a4467@MALAWI.SJLM.local>
Message-ID: <MWHPR0401MB35322665433FC5A34EA4498AC8810@MWHPR0401MB3532.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

I could not do without the sounds of my feet on the trail--rustling  

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 1, 2018, at 1:41 PM, Herb Stroh <HStroh at sjmslaw.com> wrote:
> 
> As to trail etiquette for those who do listen to music while hiking, please consider taking out an ear bud when you approach another hiker. This allows for the normal exchange of pleasantries between fellow travelers. 
> 
> I have been sectioning southbound and tend to run into 40+ thurs a day. When someone approaches with both ear buds in place it sends the message that "I don't want/need to talk to you and it will be a bother if you try." That may not be the case, but it certainly inhibits conversation. I really do appreciate when a hiker disengages from their music--even with one ear--which signals acknowledgment that another human being is approaching and that you are available for a friendly 'hello' or inquiry about upcoming water sources.
> 
> Herb
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From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Tue May  1 13:34:33 2018
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2018 18:34:33 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 111, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR14MB04747001522F81AAED309FF6F7810@CY1PR14MB0474.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <mailman.3.1525194000.57634.pct-l@backcountry.net>,
 <CY1PR14MB04747001522F81AAED309FF6F7810@CY1PR14MB0474.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR0401MB3532469EAB23477A35FD9628C8810@MWHPR0401MB3532.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

I'm wondering what has happened to the tradition of warning a hiker in front of you (a distance away)that you are approaching them. The wonderful people who clack their hiking poles together or whistle or simply say "hiker behind you "are so appreciated. A hiker referred to those you come up on one and scare the "#%}?" out you as creepers. It doesn't help to walk up behind and loudly yell a foot behind you. 
Thank you to all who learned to do this and still do it. 
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 1, 2018, at 1:23 PM, Richard Sturm <r-sturm at msn.com> wrote:
> 
> I am with the other fellow who prefers the sounds of silence. Our civilization is full of noise, noise, and more noise.That?s what the back country is for to get away from it all. Not to mention the safety aspects of missing a telltale rattle of a nearby  snake, a hiker approaching you from behind, or somebody?s cry for help in the distance.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 1, 2018, at 12:00, "pct-l-request at backcountry.net" <pct-l-request at backcountry.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to
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>> Please DELETE the copy of the complete digest from your reply. ONLY include stuff that applies to your reply
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  1. Re: favorite hiking music (Scott Diamond)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2018 17:37:09 +0000
>> From: Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Pct Mailing List <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] favorite hiking music
>> Message-ID:
>>   <CAH8m_auL8zEgmQSGO_muYBX2QbHt-jzETZr9hMw9wWpTehyTJQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>> 
>> I made a hiking specific playlist. On my list (yes I know many are corny)
>> 
>> Take a Walk - Passion Pit
>> On Top of the World - Imagine Dragon (listened to on Whitney)
>> My Body - Young the Giant
>> The Distance - Cake
>> The Wanderer - Johnny Cash
>> Wagon Wheel - Old Crow (on of my fav but better for AT)
>> When Johnny comes marching home
>> Walking Man - James Taylor
>> Go where you wanna go - Mamas and papas
>> What's Up? - Four Non-Blondes (used in movie Wild)
>> 
>> ?  -Rover
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 111, Issue 1
>> *************************************
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From thelyn at icloud.com  Tue May  1 17:53:34 2018
From: thelyn at icloud.com (Lyn Turner)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2018 23:53:34 +0100
Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 111, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <CY1PR14MB04747001522F81AAED309FF6F7810@CY1PR14MB0474.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <mailman.3.1525194000.57634.pct-l@backcountry.net>
 <CY1PR14MB04747001522F81AAED309FF6F7810@CY1PR14MB0474.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BA21C6C4-24DA-43B2-917D-45700E52776D@icloud.com>

Exactly!

Sent from my iThing


> On 1 May 2018, at 18:23, Richard Sturm <r-sturm at msn.com> wrote:
> 
> I am with the other fellow who prefers the sounds of silence. Our civilization is full of noise, noise, and more noise.That?s what the back country is for to get away from it all. Not to mention the safety aspects of missing a telltale rattle of a nearby  snake, a hiker approaching you from behind, or somebody?s cry for help in the distance.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 1, 2018, at 12:00, "pct-l-request at backcountry.net" <pct-l-request at backcountry.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to
>>   pct-l at backcountry.net
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>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>   pct-l-request at backcountry.net
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
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>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Pct-L digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Please DELETE the copy of the complete digest from your reply. ONLY include stuff that applies to your reply
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  1. Re: favorite hiking music (Scott Diamond)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2018 17:37:09 +0000
>> From: Scott Diamond <scott.diamond.mail at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Pct Mailing List <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] favorite hiking music
>> Message-ID:
>>   <CAH8m_auL8zEgmQSGO_muYBX2QbHt-jzETZr9hMw9wWpTehyTJQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>> 
>> I made a hiking specific playlist. On my list (yes I know many are corny)
>> 
>> Take a Walk - Passion Pit
>> On Top of the World - Imagine Dragon (listened to on Whitney)
>> My Body - Young the Giant
>> The Distance - Cake
>> The Wanderer - Johnny Cash
>> Wagon Wheel - Old Crow (on of my fav but better for AT)
>> When Johnny comes marching home
>> Walking Man - James Taylor
>> Go where you wanna go - Mamas and papas
>> What's Up? - Four Non-Blondes (used in movie Wild)
>> 
>> ?  -Rover
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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>> 
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 111, Issue 1
>> *************************************
> _______________________________________________
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From jamesfmiller at hotmail.com  Wed May  2 09:10:17 2018
From: jamesfmiller at hotmail.com (James F. Miller)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2018 14:10:17 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] the sounds of silence
In-Reply-To: <CAAYim0d12eyfLUz51re5ZwPq1GbERKP8YpJ=70GtobxnxVqAUg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAYim0d12eyfLUz51re5ZwPq1GbERKP8YpJ=70GtobxnxVqAUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLUPR0301MB20980367319BA055DA882CD6CA800@BLUPR0301MB2098.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>

I go with the sounds of nature.

________________________________
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Karl Jorgensen <twizstix at gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2018 10:37:53 AM
To: PCT
Subject: [pct-l] the sounds of silence

I am one also who really enjoyed getting away from all the noise that our
civilization has created.  When I hiked the trail in 2006 it was over 200
miles up the trail that I finally pulled my iPod out and started to listen
to it.  I am a classical music lover and so I had a couple of cards that I
was carrying that were loaded with music.   But I found I did not really
listen to it much until after I arrived in Oregon.   I found. that I missed
the sounds of nature when I had my ears plugged.

jorgy
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From dezrat121 at gmail.com  Wed May  2 12:36:59 2018
From: dezrat121 at gmail.com (Kaity Cummins)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2018 10:36:59 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Sounds of silence
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1525280400.80363.pct-l@backcountry.net>
References: <mailman.3.1525280400.80363.pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <AC5F2609-DE86-4EA0-94EF-17E04128654E@gmail.com>

Definitely in the camp of one earbud or none! The best example I ever had of this was while riding my bear-belled horse in CA section C: a solid dozen or so thru hikers heading up the switchbacks above Doble trail camp, and one guy with both earbuds in. My jingling horse and I had a full 5 minute+ conversation with the guy?s backpack, while hoping for a break in his music so he could hear us behind him. ;)  And I didn?t allow my horse to grab anything off his backpack to startle him, despite being close enough. We gave the poor guy a heart attack once his music paused!

Kt


From bmontgomery746 at gmail.com  Wed May  2 14:54:02 2018
From: bmontgomery746 at gmail.com (Brian Montgomery)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2018 19:54:02 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 111, Issue 2
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1525280400.80363.pct-l@backcountry.net>
References: <mailman.3.1525280400.80363.pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <CADdaWmhLq2E23ny1NsYrd=crAt5ocadOdGUJb5NAMp3LxjqATA@mail.gmail.com>

Any chance PCTA makes a recommendation regarding speakers on the trail?
Had a couple of instances where hikers were playing their tunes for all to
hear between Idyllwild and Cabazon. It might add more umph to the request
to turn them off if we could site an agency that has declared such behavior
at least "unseemly".

From troopharrison at gmail.com  Wed May  2 15:36:14 2018
From: troopharrison at gmail.com (Sabrina Harrison)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2018 15:36:14 -0500
Subject: [pct-l] San Jacinto
Message-ID: <3AED2F7E-74A2-45F5-85AD-16D51A4F52F3@gmail.com>

Microspikes needed?
Thanks y?all!

GoGo 

Sent from my iPhone

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Wed May  2 16:54:18 2018
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2018 21:54:18 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 111, Issue 2
In-Reply-To: <CADdaWmhLq2E23ny1NsYrd=crAt5ocadOdGUJb5NAMp3LxjqATA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.3.1525280400.80363.pct-l@backcountry.net>
 <CADdaWmhLq2E23ny1NsYrd=crAt5ocadOdGUJb5NAMp3LxjqATA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR0401MB353254C7E5CADA05E33FABFCC8800@MWHPR0401MB3532.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

I don't know if there is a policy Maybe you could say "First do no wrong". Maybe such a level of cluelessness is impossible to reach. I just don't know. I have run into a number of people on all the trails who play music without ear buds. It's as if the need to be distracted is so enormous that they could not see how unpleasant and invasive they were being. Maybe they are just "bear-anoid". Was this behavior out of fear?  
It's hard to comprehend. 

Marmot


Sent from my iPhone

> On May 2, 2018, at 3:54 PM, Brian Montgomery <bmontgomery746 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Any chance PCTA makes a recommendation regarding speakers on the trail?
> Had a couple of instances where hikers were playing their tunes for all to
> hear between Idyllwild and Cabazon. It might add more umph to the request
> to turn them off if we could site an agency that has declared such behavior
> at least "unseemly".
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From brick at brickrobbins.com  Wed May  2 16:59:19 2018
From: brick at brickrobbins.com (Brick Robbins)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2018 14:59:19 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 111, Issue 2
In-Reply-To: <CADdaWmhLq2E23ny1NsYrd=crAt5ocadOdGUJb5NAMp3LxjqATA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.3.1525280400.80363.pct-l@backcountry.net>
 <CADdaWmhLq2E23ny1NsYrd=crAt5ocadOdGUJb5NAMp3LxjqATA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALV1NzkavBMsR4SqxE=qwve7Zg8jcwjG2W2c0-RaOErSMY2QLA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 12:54 PM, Brian Montgomery
<bmontgomery746 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  It might add more umph to the request
> to turn them off if we could site an agency that has declared such behavior
> at least "unseemly".

Jerks are going to be jerks, and clueless people aren't going to get a
clue just because the PCTA puts a note on their website.

I think a polite "could you please turn that off, or at least down"
request would probably go much further than trying seek "official
recourse"

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Wed May  2 22:27:36 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2018 03:27:36 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Favorite hiking music [ caveats ]
Message-ID: <CALu=H=gfSTqcgA66pYo58yhRaKuq4XoKcU6Sn2DyK44O61E7iw@mail.gmail.com>

OK- Good to see folks are chiming in... the list lives on.

Hike with music-

Hike without music-

I'm totally cool either way.

Before there was music in my hike... there wasn't!

I tried it both ways. Out of concern for my well being, and wanting to hear
nature as it comes to me, I evolved into the habit of hiking with one ear
bud in, and one ear bud out.

I encountered hikers with both earbuds in, finding that some would remove
one or both and engage, and a select few would not, trucking on...
oblivious to me.

Paint

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Wed May  2 22:38:41 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2018 03:38:41 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Rumble in the jungle (desert)
Message-ID: <CALu=H=iBPJ6GVqmz4N+KnZzpKbfJ7t5PB+s5JDELOM+kfTJCCg@mail.gmail.com>

I was reading a trail journal entry and apparently at Hikertown, the owner-
Richard, has an interest in a store (Gil's) west of Hikertown, and to the
east lies his competition, in the form of Wee Vill market. Both
establishments are conveniently located on HWY 138.

Hikers go to both, much to the chagrin (apparently) of Richard.

See the journal entry.

http://www.trailjournals.com/journal/entry/587956

Choose wisely grasshopper. Lol

Paint

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Thu May  3 20:21:25 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Fri, 04 May 2018 01:21:25 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Tejon Ranch (any updates?)
Message-ID: <CALu=H=jzFsX=Hc1uEyOLn4ZpFHPZ0wcCQ_uSSeMhdCKSE7puXQ@mail.gmail.com>

What's the latest scoop on the Tejon Ranch? It's been about 4 years now-
since the agreement to grant the PCT access through the ranch made the
news. I believe it was to be a 10 year project-window in putting the trail
together.

Asking for a friend... ;0)

Thanks,

Paint

https://www.pcta.org/our-work/trail-and-land-management/relocating-the-pct-to-tejon-ranch/

http://tejonconservancy.org/pacific%20crest%20trail.htm

https://www.pcta.org/2014/pct-tejon-ranch-step-closer-19979/

https://tejonconservancy.blogspot.com/2014/05/pacific-crest-trail-moving-on-up.html

http://pcttrailsidereader.com/post/139798332501/in-2008-tejon-ranch-company-unveiled-a-landmark

http://tejonranch.com/the-company/the-ranch/

https://www.pcta.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/PCT_tejon_map.jpg

Neenach, CA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neenach%2C_California

A portion of nearby Tejon Ranch <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tejon_Ranch>
called Centennial <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial,_California> is
proposed to be a 23,000-home master-planned community adjacent to Neenach.
Civic squares, parks, shops, three fire stations, and other services are
proposed. Children would be encouraged to walk to one of the eight
elementary schools planned. The promoters have pledged to create 30,000
local jobs. On average, a new house would be erected every eight hours,
seven days a week, for 20 years.[3]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neenach%2C_California#cite_note-Gold-3>

>>> On average, a new house would be erected every eight hours, seven days
a week, for 20 years.[3]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neenach%2C_California#cite_note-Gold-3> <<<

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Fri May  4 14:41:55 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Fri, 04 May 2018 19:41:55 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] San Diego, CA, Adventure 16: PCT Rendevous- May 4th, 2018
Message-ID: <CALu=H=jok8wnrHUg9JfVo5W-HJFHmK2z3R3AK_4eZ7=tACNW7A@mail.gmail.com>

 *GATHERING & SILENT AUCTION:* 6:30 ? 8:30pm
  * PCT "SHORT" FILM FEST & CLASS VIDEO* will begin showing at 7:30pm
   *Friday, May 4, 2018:*  A16 San Diego Store

https://www.adventure16.com/blog/event-pct-rendezvous-free2

Looks like a great event. First I heard of it out here in fly over country.
I checked the PCTA website and didn't see it posted. Nothing on ALDHA
West's site either. I found it by happenstance, searching for the PCT 2017
Class Video's pending release and access vector. Was there something on
the ubiquitous Facebook platform? Whatever-

Paint

From HStroh at sjmslaw.com  Fri May  4 15:28:09 2018
From: HStroh at sjmslaw.com (Herb Stroh)
Date: Fri, 4 May 2018 20:28:09 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] San Diego, CA, Adventure 16: PCT Rendevous- May 4th,
 2018
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=jok8wnrHUg9JfVo5W-HJFHmK2z3R3AK_4eZ7=tACNW7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=jok8wnrHUg9JfVo5W-HJFHmK2z3R3AK_4eZ7=tACNW7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4a2cd23bdc2147178572024f31f377d4@MALAWI.SJLM.local>

The link to that event was in the post I forwarded regarding the release of the class video, but Julia has primarily promoted the event on Facebook--she was unaware of this list.

I have 'friended' Julia on Facebook so should hear about it shortly after its posted. I will pass the info on to this list, although I am sure it will be all over the PCT 2017 Facebook page.

As an interesting teaser, I clicked on a link she included for her business-she does wedding videos, and the samples online were very well done. I think the 2017 video is in very capable hands. 

Herb

-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Paint YW
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 12:42 PM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: [pct-l] San Diego, CA, Adventure 16: PCT Rendevous- May 4th, 2018

 *GATHERING & SILENT AUCTION:* 6:30 ? 8:30pm
  * PCT "SHORT" FILM FEST & CLASS VIDEO* will begin showing at 7:30pm
   *Friday, May 4, 2018:*  A16 San Diego Store

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.adventure16.com_blog_event-2Dpct-2Drendezvous-2Dfree2&d=DwIGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=ouoU-5bWB1hGSQsVF7qHade7G0U6SKCUqXI8nbm_amI&m=a3vEQ8yk1_nY2VudjHjEV_7SCYD-Z5euRWS09XZ-UZ4&s=2SGzaBQtuFZMzH7OOUPa7f2Wm_l9D-otQS5nsFg6w9Y&e=

Looks like a great event. First I heard of it out here in fly over country.
I checked the PCTA website and didn't see it posted. Nothing on ALDHA West's site either. I found it by happenstance, searching for the PCT 2017 Class Video's pending release and access vector. Was there something on the ubiquitous Facebook platform? Whatever-

Paint
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Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Fri May  4 21:19:16 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Sat, 05 May 2018 02:19:16 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] San Diego, CA, Adventure 16: PCT Rendevous- May 4th,
 2018
In-Reply-To: <4a2cd23bdc2147178572024f31f377d4@MALAWI.SJLM.local>
References: <CALu=H=jok8wnrHUg9JfVo5W-HJFHmK2z3R3AK_4eZ7=tACNW7A@mail.gmail.com>
 <4a2cd23bdc2147178572024f31f377d4@MALAWI.SJLM.local>
Message-ID: <CALu=H=hgQCVRv_XUHZO0vySL1BLm3kONcBv3hP8P9BAVNaPRWg@mail.gmail.com>

Sir Herb Superb,

I have set the dining table for some rather unpalatable withered crow. YES!
In review, I located the hot link to the Adventure 16 PCT Rendevous
"invite", just as you've foretold/conveyed, tucked neatly into your
previous reply to me and the board. Nothing but bitter jealousy on this
end! Lol.

FOLKS! My intuition tells me that we are merely hours away from the release
of the quasi long awaited PCT 2017 Class Video! Woot! Woot!

Pins and needles,

Paint



On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 1:28 PM Herb Stroh <HStroh at sjmslaw.com> wrote:

> The link to that event was in the post I forwarded regarding the release
> of the class video, but Julia has primarily promoted the event on
> Facebook--she was unaware of this list.
>
> I have 'friended' Julia on Facebook so should hear about it shortly after
> its posted. I will pass the info on to this list, although I am sure it
> will be all over the PCT 2017 Facebook page.
>
> As an interesting teaser, I clicked on a link she included for her
> business-she does wedding videos, and the samples online were very well
> done. I think the 2017 video is in very capable hands.
>
> Herb
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> On Behalf Of Paint YW
> Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 12:42 PM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] San Diego, CA, Adventure 16: PCT Rendevous- May 4th, 2018
>
>  *GATHERING & SILENT AUCTION:* 6:30 ? 8:30pm
>   * PCT "SHORT" FILM FEST & CLASS VIDEO* will begin showing at 7:30pm
>    *Friday, May 4, 2018:*  A16 San Diego Store
>
>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.adventure16.com_blog_event-2Dpct-2Drendezvous-2Dfree2&d=DwIGaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=ouoU-5bWB1hGSQsVF7qHade7G0U6SKCUqXI8nbm_amI&m=a3vEQ8yk1_nY2VudjHjEV_7SCYD-Z5euRWS09XZ-UZ4&s=2SGzaBQtuFZMzH7OOUPa7f2Wm_l9D-otQS5nsFg6w9Y&e=
>
> Looks like a great event. First I heard of it out here in fly over country.
> I checked the PCTA website and didn't see it posted. Nothing on ALDHA
> West's site either. I found it by happenstance, searching for the PCT 2017
> Class Video's pending release and access vector. Was there something on the
> ubiquitous Facebook platform? Whatever-
>
> Paint
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From lucecruz13 at gmail.com  Sat May  5 02:57:29 2018
From: lucecruz13 at gmail.com (Luce Cruz)
Date: Sat, 5 May 2018 00:57:29 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Favorite hiking music [ caveats ]
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=gfSTqcgA66pYo58yhRaKuq4XoKcU6Sn2DyK44O61E7iw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALu=H=gfSTqcgA66pYo58yhRaKuq4XoKcU6Sn2DyK44O61E7iw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPdO7Fx7N6V9MZvZV-2PjUOSAJe=kWiYrqdXf6+1rd3H+Xtx_w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 8:27 PM, Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>
wrote:

> OK- Good to see folks are chiming in... the list lives on.
>
> Hike with music-
>
> Hike without music-


HYOH. I'm mildly autistic, and I may want to project the idea to you that I
don't want to interact with you or anyone else right now. My music or
podcasts aren't cranked up where I won't hear a bell before it's about to
walk up to me, but don't assume I'm being rude to you because I have my
earbuds in and/or I won't stop to talk to you. I've got my issues, and
maybe I don't want you to be one of them. It's likely better for us both
that way.

Today I'm hiking my own hike. Deal with it. I am. My way.

-- 
Luce Cruz

From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Sun May  6 16:02:54 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Sun, 06 May 2018 21:02:54 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Watch "Pacific Crest Trail 2017 Class Video" on YouTube
Message-ID: <CALu=H=jCNAG6P2Q4wtRG04ecTZcT6sv44W-FPWzDqi+0Xa-XcA@mail.gmail.com>

The 2017 PCT Class Video has been posted!

ENJOY!

https://youtu.be/lSLNnM8TdpU

All the best,

Paint

From gary at hbfun.org  Tue May  8 10:22:35 2018
From: gary at hbfun.org (Gary Schenk)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 08:22:35 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] What's a Crowd
Message-ID: <8023341c59dab30f6a80c26610b370ff.squirrel@sm.webmail.pair.com>

Sunday, on the way to bag a couple of peaks, we stopped at Walker Pass
campground to have a quick breakfast.

Tents everywhere! Must have been a minimum of 30 people camped out there.
That can't possible be fun, can it?

Gary

From timpnye at gmail.com  Tue May  8 13:03:18 2018
From: timpnye at gmail.com (timpnye)
Date: Tue, 08 May 2018 11:03:18 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] What's a Crowd
In-Reply-To: <8023341c59dab30f6a80c26610b370ff.squirrel@sm.webmail.pair.com>
Message-ID: <5af1e69d.1c69fb81.42b9d.d169@mx.google.com>

Not if you're hitching into Lake Isabella. Or, if you're looking for a room there.
This is the new normal.
On the positive side, it seemed as if half the hikers that came through Mt. Laguna's Burnt Rancheria were international. I think that changes the dynamic to less of a party atmosphere, but that remains to be shown over time.
-------- Original message --------From: Gary Schenk <gary at hbfun.org> Date: 5/8/18  8:22 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: PCT List <pct-l at backcountry.net> Subject: [pct-l] What's a Crowd 
Sunday, on the way to bag a couple of peaks, we stopped at Walker Pass
campground to have a quick breakfast.

Tents everywhere! Must have been a minimum of 30 people camped out there.
That can't possible be fun, can it?

Gary
_______________________________________________
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All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From stu_tina at hotmail.com  Tue May  8 13:24:27 2018
From: stu_tina at hotmail.com (Stuart Smith)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 18:24:27 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] SOBO Ashland TO Walker Pass rather than NOBO
Message-ID: <CY4PR16MB00555D671BD9237EEFCA1FC3F09A0@CY4PR16MB0055.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>


I was going to start hiking north from Walker Pass (mile 652) to Ashland Oregon (mile 1718) on May 26th, but training 4 weeks ago had a bit of a knee injury and although I am mostly recovered am thinking that might not be a good place to start at that time of the year given snow levels, likelihood of postholing and higher level stream crossings. I am mulling as a safer option for my knee starting at Ashland at mile 1718 and going southbound thus theorically getting much less snow initially and lower snow conditions and stream levels in the Sierra when I exit at Walker Pass about July 16th?  Trying to remove some of the unpredictablity of snow travel on knees. It looks like there is very little snow Ashland to South Lake Tahoe other than the usual north facing slopes and it would take me 3 weeks minimum to reach South Laje Tahoe..

 Any thoughts on this plan?





From neil.lacey at comcast.net  Tue May  8 17:48:15 2018
From: neil.lacey at comcast.net (Neil Lacey)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 18:48:15 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] What's a Crowd
In-Reply-To: <5af1e69d.1c69fb81.42b9d.d169@mx.google.com>
References: <5af1e69d.1c69fb81.42b9d.d169@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <3628ece3-6a0c-ad47-3fe4-b3534a04c4bc@comcast.net>

I'm planning on hiking the PCT next year .. a lifelong dream (I'm 63) 
but I'm concerned about the crowds.? I'm not anti-social, but I'm no 
longer into partying ;-)

Ran into an AT thru hiker last summer while section hiking in VT who was 
saying that early on heading NB there were a lot of party types but they 
dropped off after a while.? There were a lot of thru hikers on the trail 
compared to years ago when it was an event to meet one out on the 
trail.? But not much partying 1600 miles in.

Another friend who did the PCT in 2016 recommended going SB to avoid the 
crowds, said she was competing for campsites through the desert.

But I like the idea of doing the desert early in the season, so I'm 
thinking of starting early, maybe mid-March, to beat the crowds and then 
maybe take a break depending on the snow pack.

Just thinking & planning at this point if anyone has any advice would 
appreciate it

Thx
Neil

On 5/8/2018 2:03 PM, timpnye wrote:
> Not if you're hitching into Lake Isabella. Or, if you're looking for a room there.
> This is the new normal.
> On the positive side, it seemed as if half the hikers that came through Mt. Laguna's Burnt Rancheria were international. I think that changes the dynamic to less of a party atmosphere, but that remains to be shown over time.
> -------- Original message --------From: Gary Schenk <gary at hbfun.org> Date: 5/8/18  8:22 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: PCT List <pct-l at backcountry.net> Subject: [pct-l] What's a Crowd
> Sunday, on the way to bag a couple of peaks, we stopped at Walker Pass
> campground to have a quick breakfast.
>
> Tents everywhere! Must have been a minimum of 30 people camped out there.
> That can't possible be fun, can it?
>
> Gary
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
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>
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>


From jbruins at gmail.com  Tue May  8 19:25:42 2018
From: jbruins at gmail.com (Jay Bruins)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 17:25:42 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] What's a Crowd
In-Reply-To: <3628ece3-6a0c-ad47-3fe4-b3534a04c4bc@comcast.net>
References: <5af1e69d.1c69fb81.42b9d.d169@mx.google.com>
 <3628ece3-6a0c-ad47-3fe4-b3534a04c4bc@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <346BE054-E775-421A-9365-37650CD078EB@gmail.com>

It?s really easy to avoid camping with people: dry camp. As an added bonus, you?ll be leaving less of a trace than if you don?t. It comes at the cost of one extra liter (at most) of water carried a quarter mile or so.

Likewise, I think the level of partying will depend entirely on you. On the trail, even where it?s crowded, most nights you can just fall asleep after a good days hike. Even the ?partying? types don?t stay up that late on the trail, that?s more for town and around trail angels.

It?s also worth pointing out that partying takes time. The serious partiers tend to take longer to get to the finish. I took a few weeks off (2+1) due to foot issues. The nature of the crowd changed each time I got back on.

FWIW, I camped at Walker Pass that same night. Tents largely implies non-hikers, of which there were still a few camps despite it being a Sunday night. There was no good parking when I arrived, though one car of mountain bikes left shortly thereafter. The number of hikers was similar to 2015 and very few were left by 7:30 Monday morning.

Cheers,
Armstrong

PS And, yes, it was fun. Not because of any party (despite copious available beer), but because of the welcoming atmosphere from people who behave like lifelong friends just 30 seconds after meeting.

> On May 8, 2018, at 3:48 PM, Neil Lacey <neil.lacey at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> I'm planning on hiking the PCT next year .. a lifelong dream (I'm 63) but I'm concerned about the crowds.  I'm not anti-social, but I'm no longer into partying ;-)
> 
> Ran into an AT thru hiker last summer while section hiking in VT who was saying that early on heading NB there were a lot of party types but they dropped off after a while.  There were a lot of thru hikers on the trail compared to years ago when it was an event to meet one out on the trail.  But not much partying 1600 miles in.
> 
> Another friend who did the PCT in 2016 recommended going SB to avoid the crowds, said she was competing for campsites through the desert.
> 
> But I like the idea of doing the desert early in the season, so I'm thinking of starting early, maybe mid-March, to beat the crowds and then maybe take a break depending on the snow pack.
> 
> Just thinking & planning at this point if anyone has any advice would appreciate it
> 
> Thx
> Neil
> 
>> On 5/8/2018 2:03 PM, timpnye wrote:
>> Not if you're hitching into Lake Isabella. Or, if you're looking for a room there.
>> This is the new normal.
>> On the positive side, it seemed as if half the hikers that came through Mt. Laguna's Burnt Rancheria were international. I think that changes the dynamic to less of a party atmosphere, but that remains to be shown over time.
>> -------- Original message --------From: Gary Schenk <gary at hbfun.org> Date: 5/8/18  8:22 AM  (GMT-08:00) To: PCT List <pct-l at backcountry.net> Subject: [pct-l] What's a Crowd
>> Sunday, on the way to bag a couple of peaks, we stopped at Walker Pass
>> campground to have a quick breakfast.
>> 
>> Tents everywhere! Must have been a minimum of 30 people camped out there.
>> That can't possible be fun, can it?
>> 
>> Gary
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From jalan04 at gmail.com  Tue May  8 19:51:49 2018
From: jalan04 at gmail.com (Will M)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 17:51:49 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Camping between Northern Terminus and Manning Park Lodge
Message-ID: <CAMXKz-e8gCmWzZ9bGTFa_Mi50Q-sYXQJf_JSzWCAjUneAPEPGA@mail.gmail.com>

Are there any camping spots between the Northern Terminus and the Lodge in
Manning Park?

My understanding is that it is about 10 miles to the lodge from the
monument and depending on the timing, I might need to pull over before
hitting the lodge.

Otherwise, I will most likely camp at the monument and hike to the lodge in
the morning.  The videos I've seen of the Northern Monument make it look
like there aren't any campsites nearby though.

Thanks,

Jalan

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Tue May  8 19:55:32 2018
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 00:55:32 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Camping between Northern Terminus and Manning Park Lodge
In-Reply-To: <CAMXKz-e8gCmWzZ9bGTFa_Mi50Q-sYXQJf_JSzWCAjUneAPEPGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMXKz-e8gCmWzZ9bGTFa_Mi50Q-sYXQJf_JSzWCAjUneAPEPGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR0401MB3532153E9FCC9534A3147A5AC8990@MWHPR0401MB3532.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

There's a camp spot just beyond the monument that is specifically for thrus  --I think maybe 1/2 mile. Otherwise there are a few small spots before Hwy 3. 
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 8, 2018, at 8:51 PM, Will M <jalan04 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Are there any camping spots between the Northern Terminus and the Lodge in
> Manning Park?
> 
> My understanding is that it is about 10 miles to the lodge from the
> monument and depending on the timing, I might need to pull over before
> hitting the lodge.
> 
> Otherwise, I will most likely camp at the monument and hike to the lodge in
> the morning.  The videos I've seen of the Northern Monument make it look
> like there aren't any campsites nearby though.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jalan
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From richardb10 at live.com  Tue May  8 20:05:42 2018
From: richardb10 at live.com (Richard Brinkman)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 01:05:42 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Camping between Northern Terminus and Manning Park Lodge
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR0401MB3532153E9FCC9534A3147A5AC8990@MWHPR0401MB3532.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAMXKz-e8gCmWzZ9bGTFa_Mi50Q-sYXQJf_JSzWCAjUneAPEPGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <MWHPR0401MB3532153E9FCC9534A3147A5AC8990@MWHPR0401MB3532.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CY4PR16MB1719FC86219AB6A2C744BCBDA7990@CY4PR16MB1719.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>

There is actually a very large camp well beyond the one that Marmot
mentioned.  I don't remember exactly but it seemed to be close to the half
way point to Manning Park from the northern terminus.

Roadwalker


-----Original Message-----
From: Pct-L [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of marmot
marmot
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2018 5:56 PM
To: Will M
Cc: pct-l
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Camping between Northern Terminus and Manning Park
Lodge

There's a camp spot just beyond the monument that is specifically for thrus
--I think maybe 1/2 mile. Otherwise there are a few small spots before Hwy
3. 
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 8, 2018, at 8:51 PM, Will M <jalan04 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Are there any camping spots between the Northern Terminus and the Lodge in
> Manning Park?
> 
> My understanding is that it is about 10 miles to the lodge from the
> monument and depending on the timing, I might need to pull over before
> hitting the lodge.
> 
> Otherwise, I will most likely camp at the monument and hike to the lodge
in
> the morning.  The videos I've seen of the Northern Monument make it look
> like there aren't any campsites nearby though.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jalan
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Wed May  9 00:28:11 2018
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 22:28:11 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] SOBO Ashland TO Walker Pass rather than NOBO
In-Reply-To: <CY4PR16MB00555D671BD9237EEFCA1FC3F09A0@CY4PR16MB0055.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CY4PR16MB00555D671BD9237EEFCA1FC3F09A0@CY4PR16MB0055.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <ffbe782b-6531-c10c-680b-b49f8f3b6f48@marcusschwartz.com>

The drop down to Seiad Valley around day 3 might be rough on your knee, 
but by and large going Southbound would probably give you fewer steep 
descents near the beginning of your hike than you'd get Northbound, 
hitting the Sierras almost immediately.

  -=Marcus

On 05/08/2018 11:24 AM, Stuart Smith wrote:
> 
> I was going to start hiking north from Walker Pass (mile 652) to
> Ashland Oregon (mile 1718) on May 26th, but training 4 weeks ago had
> a bit of a knee injury and although I am mostly recovered am thinking
> that might not be a good place to start at that time of the year
> given snow levels, likelihood of postholing and higher level stream
> crossings. I am mulling as a safer option for my knee starting at
> Ashland at mile 1718 and going southbound thus theorically getting
> much less snow initially and lower snow conditions and stream levels
> in the Sierra when I exit at Walker Pass about July 16th?  Trying to
> remove some of the unpredictablity of snow travel on knees. It looks
> like there is very little snow Ashland to South Lake Tahoe other than
> the usual north facing slopes and it would take me 3 weeks minimum to
> reach South Laje Tahoe..
> 
> Any thoughts on this plan?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list 
> Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: 
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All
> content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is
> prohibited without express permission.
> 

From David_Harris at hmc.edu  Wed May  9 13:08:17 2018
From: David_Harris at hmc.edu (David Money Harris)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 11:08:17 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Camping between Northern Terminus and Manning Park
 Lodge Message-ID:
Message-ID: <358BA68B-4768-4477-8912-4B361FC21142@hmc.edu>

Jalan,

Castle Creek Camp is 0.2 mile north of the border, and the large PCT Camp is 3.8 miles north of the border. Both have water, bear lockers, benches, etc.

David Harris

----------------

Are there any camping spots between the Northern Terminus and the Lodge in
Manning Park?

My understanding is that it is about 10 miles to the lodge from the
monument and depending on the timing, I might need to pull over before
hitting the lodge.

Otherwise, I will most likely camp at the monument and hike to the lodge in
the morning.  The videos I've seen of the Northern Monument make it look
like there aren't any campsites nearby though.

Thanks,

Jalan


From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com  Wed May  9 13:09:34 2018
From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW)
Date: Wed, 09 May 2018 18:09:34 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Fwd: Camping between Northern Terminus and Manning Park
 Lodge
In-Reply-To: <CALu=H=hVZRQwX6of4pexdY9W6ShYs1G=F73zoDbaok8qV43xXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMXKz-e8gCmWzZ9bGTFa_Mi50Q-sYXQJf_JSzWCAjUneAPEPGA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CALu=H=hVZRQwX6of4pexdY9W6ShYs1G=F73zoDbaok8qV43xXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALu=H=jSqbpkaaC0DK3d_krGsr8zShYWFYYgW361qSb7YXWZOw@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Paint YW <paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, May 9, 2018, 12:52 AM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Camping between Northern Terminus and Manning Park
Lodge
To: Will M <jalan04 at gmail.com>


Less than a mile, more like a third of a mile into Canada, is a campsite,
Castle Creek, and about 4 miles in, is another, near Mount Frosty Trail
junction. See halfmile's WA section map... section L.

At the monument, some ground flat enough to pitch a tent, can be found here
and there in the timber to the SW.

Good luck.

Paint

On Tue, May 8, 2018, 5:51 PM Will M <jalan04 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Are there any camping spots between the Northern Terminus and the Lodge in
> Manning Park?
>
> My understanding is that it is about 10 miles to the lodge from the
> monument and depending on the timing, I might need to pull over before
> hitting the lodge.
>
> Otherwise, I will most likely camp at the monument and hike to the lodge in
> the morning.  The videos I've seen of the Northern Monument make it look
> like there aren't any campsites nearby though.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jalan
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>

From tumstead96 at gmail.com  Wed May  9 14:32:45 2018
From: tumstead96 at gmail.com (Tim Umstead)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 12:32:45 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Camping between Northern Terminus and Manning Park Lodge
Message-ID: <CAD3yqM3su4=8-y3u5HTkC2rhkR3L9wM4N5sJUfOfW7c49OTpLQ@mail.gmail.com>

The big campsite is right at the top of the climb, just before you drop
down to Manning Park.

From sdscpcts at yahoo.com  Fri May 11 23:27:21 2018
From: sdscpcts at yahoo.com (sdscpcts)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 21:27:21 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Camping between Northern Terminus and Manning Park Lodge
In-Reply-To: <CAD3yqM3su4=8-y3u5HTkC2rhkR3L9wM4N5sJUfOfW7c49OTpLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.3.1526099249.53966.pct-l@backcountry.net>

It is just to the east of the trail a short distance.?


Sent from my Galaxy Tab? A
-------- Original message --------From: Tim Umstead <tumstead96 at gmail.com> Date: 5/9/18  12:32 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Camping between Northern Terminus and Manning Park Lodge 
The big campsite is right at the top of the climb, just before you drop
down to Manning Park.
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
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All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From kitravensong at hotmail.com  Sat May 12 16:41:12 2018
From: kitravensong at hotmail.com (Kit Ravensong)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 21:41:12 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Camping between Northern Terminus and Manning Park Lodge
Message-ID: <MWHPR17MB159778397CCC0FD328170411C29E0@MWHPR17MB1597.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>

The camping area is just north of the PCT terminus. Its an area which sometimes gets boggy during the spring melt. Its a great place to camp when its dry. It has bear boxes, and you never know what you might find inside! Sometimes its more than garbage... ???

Sent from my iPhone

From jalan04 at gmail.com  Mon May 14 16:46:41 2018
From: jalan04 at gmail.com (Will M)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 14:46:41 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Stehekin Resupply
Message-ID: <CAMXKz-diVm9prVYrUfduM+rnj==bDxeNhDGYT2Faxai+srE5hw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I was looking at the hours for the post office in Stehekin and it looks
like they are closed on Saturdays and Sundays.  Is there an alternative
place to mail resupplies in Stehekin.

Thanks,

Jalan

From douglastow at gmail.com  Tue May 15 13:52:37 2018
From: douglastow at gmail.com (Douglas Tow)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 11:52:37 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Hikers entering the Sierra?
Message-ID: <CAOOqOOt9yqT+1QsA5zKP5ER4kH0nCsx_MjYW6taqkRaHwnrFeA@mail.gmail.com>

Are there any numbers currently going into the Sierra from Kennedy Meadows?

From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Thu May 17 01:05:27 2018
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 23:05:27 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Stehekin Resupply
In-Reply-To: <CAMXKz-diVm9prVYrUfduM+rnj==bDxeNhDGYT2Faxai+srE5hw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMXKz-diVm9prVYrUfduM+rnj==bDxeNhDGYT2Faxai+srE5hw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b12dc6b8-18aa-7bae-cef7-704482ee1afc@marcusschwartz.com>

According to Crow's guide, the Lodge will hold packages:

http://asthecrowflies.org/pctpacific-crest-trail-town-guide/

According to Halfmile's guide, they must be sent via USPS though:

https://www.pctmap.net/wp-content/uploads/pct/halfmiles_pct_notes_orwa.pdf

  -=Marcus

On 05/14/2018 02:46 PM, Will M wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I was looking at the hours for the post office in Stehekin and it looks
> like they are closed on Saturdays and Sundays.  Is there an alternative
> place to mail resupplies in Stehekin.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jalan
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> 

From iceaxehikes at gmail.com  Thu May 17 12:25:52 2018
From: iceaxehikes at gmail.com (Matthew Edwards)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 11:25:52 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Stehekin
Message-ID: <CACOP0JypPMAofw5T9++Ch6KAOVzCx7-90OMCGLCSVSmZ7wfijQ@mail.gmail.com>

Sitting here in Wyoming.
Remembering the PCT in 2009.

I was in SoCal somewhere.
Stehekin seemed so far away.
Would I break an ankle and have to drag my leg all the way?
What is the Sierra going to be like?
If I hike 27 miles a day I can get to the next resupply a half day early
and eat lunch twice!

Then one day, I got to Stehekin.
It was a rainy morning and i was chafed.
An old bus was there.
Soon a group of hikers too.
We piled in together and then..
And then the BAKERY.
Stehekin was, is a magical place.
I read in Yogi's book how Scott Williamson had said it was his favorite.
Didn't know until i saw lake Chelan, that long narrow gorge of cold rock,
and those warm cinnamon rolls, it was mine too.
3 days.
3 more days and the end of the dream.
I remember Banshee and her tribe saying they were gonna slow down cause it
was coming too fast.
Spent a night with them on that last stretch bedded down in wild
blueberries.
Picking them with my teeth while laying in my bag.
Those North Cascades and the fading light of summer with it's long dark,
sky reflected blue shadows.

Stehekin.

From mowoggirl at yahoo.com  Mon May 28 13:36:31 2018
From: mowoggirl at yahoo.com (linsey)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 12:36:31 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] (no subject)
Message-ID: <1527532595.NN0QfqlQDE7euNN0VfnwYi@mf-smf-ucb033c1>


http://go.glennwharton.com

Linsey


From reinholdmetzger at cox.net  Mon May 28 20:58:38 2018
From: reinholdmetzger at cox.net (Reinhold Metzger)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 18:58:38 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fwd: JUST KIDS....Taking Chance
In-Reply-To: <22890fb1-93c6-40f6-7d85-ebf77482df82@cox.net>
References: <22890fb1-93c6-40f6-7d85-ebf77482df82@cox.net>
Message-ID: <d95cd8a2-7f24-c657-552f-c153ab2e4928@cox.net>


To my hiking buddies,....those who served and those who know the "PAIN".

Like always, on Memorial Day, I was watching the movie "Taking Chance"
and it took me back to a time very long ago.
If? "Memorial Day"? means anything to you, you owe it to yourself to watch
the movie "Taking Chance".
It will rip your heart out, make you feel all mushy inside and make you
appreciate and respect the honor bestowed upon our fallen heroes on
Memorial Day.
It is by far the movie that best reflects what Memorial Day stands for.
I don't know what it is about Memorial Day that makes me feel this way
and makes me say the things I am about to say.......
/
We were? "just kids",? in the summer of 1965, when we landed in Vietnam.
//"Just kids", most of us 18-19-20 years old, just barely out of 
High//School,
not yet old enough to drink but old enough to die for our //country. /
/We never could quite understand that....if you are old enough to die //for
your country you should be old enough to drink. /
/With one year of advanced infantry training including jungle, desert, 
//cold
weather, hand to hand combat and raider training we were gung ho //
Marines, tough enough to chew nails...I mean we were Captain //Tolleson's
Echo 2/7, the cream of the crop of the Marine Corps' //Raider Battalion and
ready to kick a$$. //
We were "just kids", eager to be Marines, eager to serve during a time //of
war, eager to be heroes. //
That naive fantasy thinking can change mighty quick when the landing //
crafts hit the beach and bullets start flying.
//There is no glory in war, only misery......it is your worst nightmare. //
Our first casualty was by friendly fire....the tragic part was that 
//the bullet
that caused our first casualty was fired by the casualties //best friend.
//In combat, sometimes reflex decisions have to be made in a split second
and //sometimes those decisions turn out not to be the right ones.
//In my mind there is no greater honor than serving your country during 
//a time
of war and no greater sacrifice than a soldier paying the //ultimate 
price while
serving his country during a time of war.
//Take Pat Tillman for instance....Pat was a professional football 
//player who
had fortune and fame yet walked away from a 3.6 million //dollar 
contract to
serve his country and paid the ultimate //price...ironically, also by 
friendly fire.
//But it does not matter, friendly fire, enemy fire, the results are 
//always the
same and Memorial Day is to honor all of our fallen heroes,//for they 
served
their country and paid the ultimate price. //
If it were not for men like that, Obama might be our Prime Minister or 
//our
national language might be German and Memorial Day is to remind us //of
that and pay our respect to these fallen heroes who sacrificed //their lives
so that we can enjoy what we have today.

//We did not consider ourselves to be "just kids",...but now that I am 
older //and
wiser I realize, we WERE "just kids".

//Nothing has really changed and many of our troops serving in Iraq and 
//Afghanistan
are still "just kids"....not yet old enough to drink, //but old enough 
to die for their country. /
/Think about that for a moment, on Memorial Day, and what that day 
//stands for. /

/Reinhold Metzger
//Sgt. USMC 1964-68
//Gunner, Echo Co., 2nd Battalion, 7th Marines

/

/http://imgur.com/aJGLZTh
/





---
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From reinholdmetzger at cox.net  Mon May 28 21:06:54 2018
From: reinholdmetzger at cox.net (Reinhold Metzger)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2018 19:06:54 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fwd: Fwd: JUST KIDS....Taking Chance
In-Reply-To: <d95cd8a2-7f24-c657-552f-c153ab2e4928@cox.net>
References: <d95cd8a2-7f24-c657-552f-c153ab2e4928@cox.net>
Message-ID: <a337af05-9a93-a8a2-c9d3-0d44bf576f21@cox.net>

RATS!!!...I meant to say TRUMP not OBAMA.
........................................................................

To my hiking buddies,....those who served and those who know the "PAIN".

Like always, on Memorial Day, I was watching the movie "Taking Chance"
and it took me back to a time very long ago.
If? "Memorial Day"? means anything to you, you owe it to yourself to watch
the movie "Taking Chance".
It will rip your heart out, make you feel all mushy inside and make you
appreciate and respect the honor bestowed upon our fallen heroes on
Memorial Day.
It is by far the movie that best reflects what Memorial Day stands for.
I don't know what it is about Memorial Day that makes me feel this way
and makes me say the things I am about to say.......
/
We were? "just kids",? in the summer of 1965, when we landed in Vietnam.
//"Just kids", most of us 18-19-20 years old, just barely out of 
High//School,
not yet old enough to drink but old enough to die for our //country. /
/We never could quite understand that....if you are old enough to die //for
your country you should be old enough to drink. /
/With one year of advanced infantry training including jungle, desert, 
//cold
weather, hand to hand combat and raider training we were gung ho //
Marines, tough enough to chew nails...I mean we were Captain //Tolleson's
Echo 2/7, the cream of the crop of the Marine Corps' //Raider Battalion and
ready to kick a$$. //
We were "just kids", eager to be Marines, eager to serve during a time //of
war, eager to be heroes. //
That naive fantasy thinking can change mighty quick when the landing //
crafts hit the beach and bullets start flying.
//There is no glory in war, only misery......it is your worst nightmare. //
Our first casualty was by friendly fire....the tragic part was that 
//the bullet
that caused our first casualty was fired by the casualties //best friend.
//In combat, sometimes reflex decisions have to be made in a split second
and //sometimes those decisions turn out not to be the right ones.
//In my mind there is no greater honor than serving your country during 
//a time
of war and no greater sacrifice than a soldier paying the //ultimate 
price while
serving his country during a time of war.
//Take Pat Tillman for instance....Pat was a professional football 
//player who
had fortune and fame yet walked away from a 3.6 million //dollar 
contract to
serve his country and paid the ultimate //price...ironically, also by 
friendly fire.
//But it does not matter, friendly fire, enemy fire, the results are 
//always the
same and Memorial Day is to honor all of our fallen heroes,//for they 
served
their country and paid the ultimate price. //
If it were not for men like that, Obama might be our Prime Minister or 
//our
national language might be German and Memorial Day is to remind us //of
that and pay our respect to these fallen heroes who sacrificed //their lives
so that we can enjoy what we have today.

//We did not consider ourselves to be "just kids",...but now that I am 
older //and
wiser I realize, we WERE "just kids".

//Nothing has really changed and many of our troops serving in Iraq and 
//Afghanistan
are still "just kids"....not yet old enough to drink, //but old enough 
to die for their country. /
/Think about that for a moment, on Memorial Day, and what that day 
//stands for. /

/Reinhold Metzger
//Sgt. USMC 1964-68
//Gunner, Echo Co., 2nd Battalion, 7th Marines

/

/http://imgur.com/aJGLZTh
/





---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

From randy_forsland at hotmail.com  Mon May 28 21:31:10 2018
From: randy_forsland at hotmail.com (Randy Forsland)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 02:31:10 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Fwd: JUST KIDS....Taking Chance
In-Reply-To: <d95cd8a2-7f24-c657-552f-c153ab2e4928@cox.net>
References: <22890fb1-93c6-40f6-7d85-ebf77482df82@cox.net>,
 <d95cd8a2-7f24-c657-552f-c153ab2e4928@cox.net>
Message-ID: <BN6PR14MB12529B3876A5904768EB1DE4FF6D0@BN6PR14MB1252.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>


It's a strange world sometimes....In 1965, i was a child in 6th grade...i remember the war news on TV at night....I didn't understand it all, but i still remember thinking that it was good to have a war now as there will be peace when i grow up..Didn't know that the conflict would last so long..I ended up volunteering in 1971 and served 3 tours of duties in South East Asia, Ton Son Nhut , Udorn and Korat..i was there during the last gasps of the war in 75 when Saigon fell, I participated in the recovery of the SS Mayaguez in May of 75 which was the last documented battle of the Vietnam War....


Redwood


________________________________
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Reinhold Metzger <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2018 6:58 PM
To: PCT; Hiker97 at aol.com; Sabrina Harrison; scott williamson
Subject: [pct-l] Fwd: JUST KIDS....Taking Chance


To my hiking buddies,....those who served and those who know the "PAIN".

Like always, on Memorial Day, I was watching the movie "Taking Chance"
and it took me back to a time very long ago.
If  "Memorial Day"  means anything to you, you owe it to yourself to watch
the movie "Taking Chance".
It will rip your heart out, make you feel all mushy inside and make you
appreciate and respect the honor bestowed upon our fallen heroes on
Memorial Day.
It is by far the movie that best reflects what Memorial Day stands for.
I don't know what it is about Memorial Day that makes me feel this way
and makes me say the things I am about to say.......
/
We were  "just kids",  in the summer of 1965, when we landed in Vietnam.
//"Just kids", most of us 18-19-20 years old, just barely out of
High//School,
not yet old enough to drink but old enough to die for our //country. /
/We never could quite understand that....if you are old enough to die //for
your country you should be old enough to drink. /
/With one year of advanced infantry training including jungle, desert,
//cold
weather, hand to hand combat and raider training we were gung ho //
Marines, tough enough to chew nails...I mean we were Captain //Tolleson's
Echo 2/7, the cream of the crop of the Marine Corps' //Raider Battalion and
ready to kick a$$. //
We were "just kids", eager to be Marines, eager to serve during a time //of
war, eager to be heroes. //
That naive fantasy thinking can change mighty quick when the landing //
crafts hit the beach and bullets start flying.
//There is no glory in war, only misery......it is your worst nightmare. //
Our first casualty was by friendly fire....the tragic part was that
//the bullet
that caused our first casualty was fired by the casualties //best friend.
//In combat, sometimes reflex decisions have to be made in a split second
and //sometimes those decisions turn out not to be the right ones.
//In my mind there is no greater honor than serving your country during
//a time
of war and no greater sacrifice than a soldier paying the //ultimate
price while
serving his country during a time of war.
//Take Pat Tillman for instance....Pat was a professional football
//player who
had fortune and fame yet walked away from a 3.6 million //dollar
contract to
serve his country and paid the ultimate //price...ironically, also by
friendly fire.
//But it does not matter, friendly fire, enemy fire, the results are
//always the
same and Memorial Day is to honor all of our fallen heroes,//for they
served
their country and paid the ultimate price. //
If it were not for men like that, Obama might be our Prime Minister or
//our
national language might be German and Memorial Day is to remind us //of
that and pay our respect to these fallen heroes who sacrificed //their lives
so that we can enjoy what we have today.

//We did not consider ourselves to be "just kids",...but now that I am
older //and
wiser I realize, we WERE "just kids".

//Nothing has really changed and many of our troops serving in Iraq and
//Afghanistan
are still "just kids"....not yet old enough to drink, //but old enough
to die for their country. /
/Think about that for a moment, on Memorial Day, and what that day
//stands for. /

/Reinhold Metzger
//Sgt. USMC 1964-68
//Gunner, Echo Co., 2nd Battalion, 7th Marines

/

/http://imgur.com/aJGLZTh
/





---
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From randy_forsland at hotmail.com  Mon May 28 22:09:07 2018
From: randy_forsland at hotmail.com (Randy Forsland)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 03:09:07 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Fwd: Fwd: JUST KIDS....Taking Chance
In-Reply-To: <a337af05-9a93-a8a2-c9d3-0d44bf576f21@cox.net>
References: <d95cd8a2-7f24-c657-552f-c153ab2e4928@cox.net>,
 <a337af05-9a93-a8a2-c9d3-0d44bf576f21@cox.net>
Message-ID: <MWHPR14MB1263F36D5CFC8F1376C4DF9CFF6D0@MWHPR14MB1263.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>

You said it right the first time....Freud is always right


Redwood

USAF

16th SOS Gunner

1971-1978




________________________________
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Reinhold Metzger <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2018 7:06 PM
To: PCT
Subject: [pct-l] Fwd: Fwd: JUST KIDS....Taking Chance

RATS!!!...I meant to say TRUMP not OBAMA.
........................................................................

To my hiking buddies,....those who served and those who know the "PAIN".

Like always, on Memorial Day, I was watching the movie "Taking Chance"
and it took me back to a time very long ago.
If  "Memorial Day"  means anything to you, you owe it to yourself to watch
the movie "Taking Chance".
It will rip your heart out, make you feel all mushy inside and make you
appreciate and respect the honor bestowed upon our fallen heroes on
Memorial Day.
It is by far the movie that best reflects what Memorial Day stands for.
I don't know what it is about Memorial Day that makes me feel this way
and makes me say the things I am about to say.......
/
We were  "just kids",  in the summer of 1965, when we landed in Vietnam.
//"Just kids", most of us 18-19-20 years old, just barely out of
High//School,
not yet old enough to drink but old enough to die for our //country. /
/We never could quite understand that....if you are old enough to die //for
your country you should be old enough to drink. /
/With one year of advanced infantry training including jungle, desert,
//cold
weather, hand to hand combat and raider training we were gung ho //
Marines, tough enough to chew nails...I mean we were Captain //Tolleson's
Echo 2/7, the cream of the crop of the Marine Corps' //Raider Battalion and
ready to kick a$$. //
We were "just kids", eager to be Marines, eager to serve during a time //of
war, eager to be heroes. //
That naive fantasy thinking can change mighty quick when the landing //
crafts hit the beach and bullets start flying.
//There is no glory in war, only misery......it is your worst nightmare. //
Our first casualty was by friendly fire....the tragic part was that
//the bullet
that caused our first casualty was fired by the casualties //best friend.
//In combat, sometimes reflex decisions have to be made in a split second
and //sometimes those decisions turn out not to be the right ones.
//In my mind there is no greater honor than serving your country during
//a time
of war and no greater sacrifice than a soldier paying the //ultimate
price while
serving his country during a time of war.
//Take Pat Tillman for instance....Pat was a professional football
//player who
had fortune and fame yet walked away from a 3.6 million //dollar
contract to
serve his country and paid the ultimate //price...ironically, also by
friendly fire.
//But it does not matter, friendly fire, enemy fire, the results are
//always the
same and Memorial Day is to honor all of our fallen heroes,//for they
served
their country and paid the ultimate price. //
If it were not for men like that, Obama might be our Prime Minister or
//our
national language might be German and Memorial Day is to remind us //of
that and pay our respect to these fallen heroes who sacrificed //their lives
so that we can enjoy what we have today.

//We did not consider ourselves to be "just kids",...but now that I am
older //and
wiser I realize, we WERE "just kids".

//Nothing has really changed and many of our troops serving in Iraq and
//Afghanistan
are still "just kids"....not yet old enough to drink, //but old enough
to die for their country. /
/Think about that for a moment, on Memorial Day, and what that day
//stands for. /

/Reinhold Metzger
//Sgt. USMC 1964-68
//Gunner, Echo Co., 2nd Battalion, 7th Marines

/

/http://imgur.com/aJGLZTh
/





---
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From gary at hbfun.org  Tue May 29 08:21:23 2018
From: gary at hbfun.org (Gary Schenk)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 06:21:23 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Fwd: Fwd: JUST KIDS....Taking Chance
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR14MB1263F36D5CFC8F1376C4DF9CFF6D0@MWHPR14MB1263.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
References: <d95cd8a2-7f24-c657-552f-c153ab2e4928@cox.net>,
 <a337af05-9a93-a8a2-c9d3-0d44bf576f21@cox.net>
 <MWHPR14MB1263F36D5CFC8F1376C4DF9CFF6D0@MWHPR14MB1263.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <0be6a7c97ee1be3e29eb176782d870f8.squirrel@sm.webmail.pair.com>

My Father, 5th Army Air Force, 1944, says you guys should keep your
political crud off the list. It, and both of you, are going into my kill
file. Have a nice day.

Gary

On Mon, May 28, 2018 8:09 pm, Randy Forsland wrote:
> You said it right the first time....Freud is always right
>
>
> Redwood
>
> USAF
>
> 16th SOS Gunner
>
> 1971-1978
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Reinhold Metzger
> <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>
> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2018 7:06 PM
> To: PCT
> Subject: [pct-l] Fwd: Fwd: JUST KIDS....Taking Chance
>
> RATS!!!...I meant to say TRUMP not OBAMA.
> ........................................................................
>
> To my hiking buddies,....those who served and those who know the "PAIN".
>
> Like always, on Memorial Day, I was watching the movie "Taking Chance"
> and it took me back to a time very long ago.
> If  "Memorial Day"  means anything to you, you owe it to yourself to watch
> the movie "Taking Chance".
> It will rip your heart out, make you feel all mushy inside and make you
> appreciate and respect the honor bestowed upon our fallen heroes on
> Memorial Day.
> It is by far the movie that best reflects what Memorial Day stands for.
> I don't know what it is about Memorial Day that makes me feel this way
> and makes me say the things I am about to say.......
> /
> We were  "just kids",  in the summer of 1965, when we landed in Vietnam.
> //"Just kids", most of us 18-19-20 years old, just barely out of
> High//School,
> not yet old enough to drink but old enough to die for our //country. /
> /We never could quite understand that....if you are old enough to die
> //for
> your country you should be old enough to drink. /
> /With one year of advanced infantry training including jungle, desert,
> //cold
> weather, hand to hand combat and raider training we were gung ho //
> Marines, tough enough to chew nails...I mean we were Captain //Tolleson's
> Echo 2/7, the cream of the crop of the Marine Corps' //Raider Battalion
> and
> ready to kick a$$. //
> We were "just kids", eager to be Marines, eager to serve during a time
> //of
> war, eager to be heroes. //
> That naive fantasy thinking can change mighty quick when the landing //
> crafts hit the beach and bullets start flying.
> //There is no glory in war, only misery......it is your worst nightmare.
> //
> Our first casualty was by friendly fire....the tragic part was that
> //the bullet
> that caused our first casualty was fired by the casualties //best friend.
> //In combat, sometimes reflex decisions have to be made in a split second
> and //sometimes those decisions turn out not to be the right ones.
> //In my mind there is no greater honor than serving your country during
> //a time
> of war and no greater sacrifice than a soldier paying the //ultimate
> price while
> serving his country during a time of war.
> //Take Pat Tillman for instance....Pat was a professional football
> //player who
> had fortune and fame yet walked away from a 3.6 million //dollar
> contract to
> serve his country and paid the ultimate //price...ironically, also by
> friendly fire.
> //But it does not matter, friendly fire, enemy fire, the results are
> //always the
> same and Memorial Day is to honor all of our fallen heroes,//for they
> served
> their country and paid the ultimate price. //
> If it were not for men like that, Obama might be our Prime Minister or
> //our
> national language might be German and Memorial Day is to remind us //of
> that and pay our respect to these fallen heroes who sacrificed //their
> lives
> so that we can enjoy what we have today.
>
> //We did not consider ourselves to be "just kids",...but now that I am
> older //and
> wiser I realize, we WERE "just kids".
>
> //Nothing has really changed and many of our troops serving in Iraq and
> //Afghanistan
> are still "just kids"....not yet old enough to drink, //but old enough
> to die for their country. /
> /Think about that for a moment, on Memorial Day, and what that day
> //stands for. /
>
> /Reinhold Metzger
> //Sgt. USMC 1964-68
> //Gunner, Echo Co., 2nd Battalion, 7th Marines
>
> /
>
> /http://imgur.com/aJGLZTh
> /
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> [https://static3.avast.com/20180528/web/i/mkt/share/avast-logo.png]<https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
> Avast | Download Free Antivirus for PC, Mac &
> Android<https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
> www.avast.com
> Protect your devices with the best free antivirus on the market. Download
> Avast antivirus and anti-spyware protection for your PC, Mac and Android.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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>
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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>
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>


From ned at mountaineducation.org  Tue May 29 13:52:08 2018
From: ned at mountaineducation.org (ned at mountaineducation.org)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 11:52:08 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Current Southern Sierra Conditions at 11,600
Message-ID: <09a801d3f77e$25b894b0$7129be10$@mountaineducation.org>

You guys probably know the snow/creek/trail conditions already, but I
thought I'd express what I saw over the weekend in the Cottonwood Creek/Army
Pass drainage:

Southern aspects to 12,000 feet are mostly free of snow as I saw on New Army
Pass where there was only snow at the top. People of all ages were seen able
to get over this pass despite the snow, though many did turn around because
of it and their personal lack of snow skills (smart).

Snow condition was hard and consolidated with postholey snow where it was
thin (less than 2 feet thick) or near/over dirt, rocks, and water. Nights
were just below freezing keeping the morning snow hard and requiring
traction devices and self-arrest training.

Northern aspects, like those in the Army Pass cirque showed snow down to
11,400 and in the shade. The lower pitches of snow were great to train on,
but you had to keep an eye out for the rocks below since lakes at 11,200 are
mostly thawed out and "open" with their boulders showing to run into during
out-of-control self-arrest practice. The upper pitches (maybe in the
vicinity of 45-50 degrees steep) had soft surface snow on a hard layer
within the pack during mid-day making for perfect downhill glissading and
uphill standing balance control while kicking steps into the hillside.

Major danger was that the snowpack was not strong enough (the snow was too
soft within the function of an ice axe pick) to affect a stop during
self-arrest on a 45-degree slope, meaning I had to utilize my feet to stop,
which is certainly fine and needed. With this in mind, I did not feel it
safe to "summit" as there was no way to stop a descent on that steep of a
pitch. I would have had to start a descent in the "chute" off the pass in
the self-arrest position and pray that I could control the speed of my
descent while slicing through the soft snow riding the pick of my
self-arrest device. As is said in climbing, "Going up is optional, going
back down is required," so we aborted going up after assessing the
self-arrest conditions.

Lakes were full and creeks were flowing gently on that drainage's mild
slopes. The willows were just starting to bud out and little flowers
appearing above 11,000.

Thundersnow was a daily occurrence with little cumulus clouds first
appearing at around 0900 and becoming 100% coverage and black by 3pm.
Camping and travel above treeline (11,000 feet) was risky after
mid-afternoon, but the sunsets were gorgeous once the local storms cleared
out!

Bugs: Absolutely none!
Bears: Not a one seen nor heard of.
"Little bears" and marmots: Plenty, as always.
Dust & Dirt: Minimal due to the daily rains/snow.
Rangers: None seen.
Walk-up permits: Abundant

It's early summer in the Sierra, folks!

 

 

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

ned at mountaineducation.org <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org>  

 


From pctpanama at aol.com  Tue May 29 18:34:54 2018
From: pctpanama at aol.com (Brian Gill)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 16:34:54 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Off-topic things
Message-ID: <ED422641-0661-4C76-936A-88238B187DB6@aol.com>

A few years ago I mentioned O.J. Simpson was guilty on something .. whatever the case may be and was given a warning and everyone had a fit that it was off-topic.. I?m so sick of hearing this Vietnam marine garbage.. over and over . has to be a site for that type of stuff somewhere.  This isn?t the place .  My two cents. lol 

"Sent from my iPhone"

       Brian 

From james8313 at sti.net  Tue May 29 18:49:10 2018
From: james8313 at sti.net (james8313 at sti.net)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 16:49:10 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Memorial Day History
Message-ID: <225e4fb7ff235b1303fd0ca756ea120f@127.0.0.1>

Memorial Day or Decoration Day as it was originally known, is a federal 
holiday in the United States for remembering the people who died while 
serving in the country's armed forces. You may wish to read the History 
of the Holiday on this site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_Day

Yosemite James
1970-1973 US Army

From tokencivilian at yahoo.com  Wed May 30 11:31:08 2018
From: tokencivilian at yahoo.com (Barry Teschlog)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2018 16:31:08 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] PCT Advice
References: <1752927118.6988613.1527697868570.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1752927118.6988613.1527697868570@mail.yahoo.com>

Friend of a co-worker is going on a thru next year and is asking for advice.? Here's what I'm passing along, based on my experience and observation.
?-?????????You need to bein good enough shape to do 15 miles / day right from day 1.? Water is scarce and you must be able to hikefrom one source to the next in a reasonable amount of time, else you get soloaded down with water, it slows you even more.?Spend the winter / early spring walking with your pack, uphill, bothways ?? there is no substitute for thiskind of training.? If you live in a flat area, weight your training pack to be heavier than your trail pack to compensate.? Do stairs for some vertical training.

-?????????Minimalpractical pack weight is a key.? Notethat is NOT absolute minimum pack weight, but minimal for YOU, and what YOUneed.? There were people with 8 poundpacks, I was at about 16, others were in the low 20?s ? all made it toCanada.? The 8 pound guy I knew sleptwarm, didn?t need a ground pad, was ok with bugs, etc.? His kit would have been wrong for me ? my 16pounds was the minimum I could get to and meet my other needs (durability,sufficient clothing, etc).
-?????????Pack weight &hiking speed are positive feedback.? Thatis, a heavy pack, begets and even heavier pack since it slows you down,requiring even more water, food and fuel, which slows you down even more.? Hiking slowly does the same for the same reasons (more water, food, etc).? Heavy bulky tents and sleeping bags take upspace and require a heavier built pack, that weighs more, than a smaller pack(which you could use if your tent, etc was smaller and lighter.)? A lighter pack enables you to move morequickly for the same level of effort, getting from one water source to the nextmore quickly, allowing you to carry less water, which is lighter, and to get tothe next town more quickly, enabling less food, etc.? The cheapest way to save weight in the pack is to not bring an unnecessary item.? Quality down gear is worth the price for the lighter weight, better warmth and smaller volume in the pack? - get a high quality sleeping bag, take care of it, and it'll last you for decades of solid service (which in the end is less expensive than buying and replacing cheap bags).
?- Big miles come from time out of camp, not from walking quickly.? Get up early and get going.? Hike until dinner time, or even later, with dinner being a rest break.

-?????????Be familiarwith your gear.? Everything you take toCampo, should be well used THIS summer.? Field test everything. ?Don?t be that person (I saw them) trying to figure out a new shelter orpiece of gear that first night on the trail.?Don?t start with a brand new pack ? I watched a guy struggle with a newto him pack that simply didn?t fit.? 

-?????????Do NOT rush upto Kennedy Meadows if you get an early start (e.g. any time in March or even inearly April).? Take zero?s, go slow, doside trips, volunteer a week or two at a Trail Angels place, ?etc to adjust your Kennedy Meadows date to beappropriate to the combination of snow conditions and your skill set.? Except for the most experienced, in general,I?d say never before June 1.? But?..don?tbe intimidated by snow either.? A sensible, wellequipped and well trained hiker can get through the Sierra in high snowconditions.? I left KM on June 14 of ahigh snow year and made it through just fine ? but I had the skills and gear todo it, plus the motivation to handle the very challenging conditions.? Ignore the panic that others instill in regards to snow.? Impassable to them might be challenging but doable for you.? Conditions change quickly during the melt, so that just a few days can make a huge difference - reports from 3 days ago are out of date, go and put your own eyeballs on the situation and judge for yourself.? That said, check your ego and be ready to turn back if a dispassionate analysis of the conditions shows they are above your skill or comfort level.? Do not get "go fever" - that's what blew up the Challenger and killed the 7 crew.

-?????????Start slow andtake lots of zero?s early on.? I zeroed 2days for the kick off at mile 43, and zeroed in Warner Springs, Idyllwild (oneeach from Pines to Palms and again from Devi?s Slide), Big Bear, Wrightwood,Agua Dulce (double) and Mojave.? WalkerPass / Lake Isabella was the first town stop without a zero.? This allowed my body to adjust to the rigorsof the trail and I avoided the all too common early overuse injuries of peoplewho went too fast, too soon.
-?????????There is nosubstitute for solid land navigation skills with map and compass.? Apps like Guthook and Halfmile are great,right up until your phone dies (smashed in a fall, dunked in a creek crossing,battery dies, etc, etc, etc).? Paper mapin a ziplock bag and compass are far more robust.? If you don?t know how to map and compass nav,learn.? Orienteering is an excellent wayto do this.? Electronic nav also dumbsdown hikers ? witnessed is the person staring at their phone / GPS trying tofind the trail under the snow, when if they?d simply have looked, they?d seenit 15 feet over there.? Keep the head up,looking out of the cockpit, so to speak, instead of staring at theinstruments.? If you do this and payattention, you?ll develop a 6th sense of ?where would they have putthe trail? having been an observer of where they did put the trail the previousseveral hundred miles.? Head up andactively navigating = situational awareness.?Relying exclusively on an app = lost if it breaks.
-?????????This hike is80% mental, 15% physical and 5% logistical.?Keep your head in the game if Canada is your goal.? Along those lines, don?t even think of Canadauntil you get to Washington.? My way ofmentally not getting overwhelmed was to set short and mid-term goals so thateach day made noticeable progress toward those goals.? Short term was always the same ? get to thenext town stop (typically 3-6 days away) and all the goodness that entailed ? foodon a plate, a bed, shower and clean clothes.?Mid-term goals were, in order:?Get to Agua Dulce (about 1 month or so, the transition period to thetrail), get to Kennedy Meadows (done with the desert and gateway to the highSierra).? Get to South Lake Tahoe(through the high Sierra).? Get to halfway (Chester).? Get the heck out ofCalifornia.? Orgeon is a mid-term goalunto itself.? And finally at CascadeLocks, you are allowed to think of Canada.
-?????????Staying healthyis paramount.? Managing blisters andchafe early on is critical.? Propernutrition (vitamins, minerals, protein, caloric intake) is a must else yourbody will break down (lots of drops from the Sierra to half way from those thatnever get their nutrition right ? they?ve been running on reserves, but by thatpoint in a hike, reserves are exhausted).?2nd breakfast and 2nd lunch help you to eat enough.? Sanitation and hygiene is critical to avoid giardia and othertransmissible disease.? Don?t be cheap onshoes ? replace them regularly (e.g. every 450 miles or so) to help avoid stress fractures in the feet.? Expect to burn through 5-6 pair.
-??????????Plans areuseless, but planning is indispensable? ? Eisenhower.? This applies to the trail.? Have a plan, have a realistic time line, butdon?t be a slave to it.? Reality willdictate what you will do out on the trail.?The planning will inform you of your options once you get there.? It will also inform you if you?re makingreasonable progress (note that SOME schedule pressure is a good thing, once youclear the Sierra ? it?s motivating.? Don?tdilly-dally, else you?ll be caught by snow in Washington).? Be flexible and adaptable ? if something isn?tworking, change.
-?????????Budget:? Have enough money for the hike.? I?d recommend a minimum of $5,000.? It stinks when the forecast is for 3 days ofsteady rain and you don?t have the funds to afford a couple extra nights in ahotel to wait it out.? Be frugal, but notcheap on the trail ? share hotel rooms with other hikers, but pay the innkeeperthe extra person charges (it is still way less expensive sharing a room vs solo) ?? don?t sneak people in to the rooms.? That would make for ill will for futurehikers.? If you don't have enough money, some combination of delaying the hike, getting a 2nd or 3rd job, sell your iCrap, quit spending so much pre-hike will get you enough.? Don't forget to set aside money to get back on your feet once you get home post hike.? 2 months expenses is advisable.

-?????????You will neverbe so dirty as you will be hiking the desert, or other dry areas of the traillike Nor Cal.?? See above in re hygiene ?do your best to manage this.
?- Spot / inReach and similar devices are for actual, immediately life threatening emergencies only.? Your first response should be to suck it up and self rescue, not push the help button.? Half rations are an option if you're behind schedule on a section.? Don't be a fool and go out into a fall Washington storm thinking SAR can save your butt if you push the help button.? Choppers don't fly in snow and you could be a frozen corpse by the time it clears enough for them to get to you.


-?????????Beindependent.? Don?t rely on others fornavigation, gear, etc.? That doesn?t meanyou can?t occasionally ask others for things, but don?t be that person that isconstantly asking to borrow others water treatment, or hike with other peoplesince you can?t navigate.? 

-?????????Go your ownpace.? Never, never, never try and keepup with someone that is faster than you ? that is the road to injury.
-?????????Listen to yourbody ? if you need a break, take it.? Ifyou need a zero, take it.? It?s fasterthan having to take time off for an injury.
-?????????Life is neverso simple as on a thru hike.? Wake upwith the dawn, hike north, go to sleep with the darkness.? Wash, rinse, repeat.
-?????????The second halfof the trail in distance will take considerably less time than the first half.? There are a few reasons for this ? you?realready in trail shape so you?re going full speed vs the initial weeks ofcoming up to speed.? You don?t have thehigh Sierra to slow you down.? Oregon isvery fast.? I took a slightly longer thanaverage of 161 days to get from Campo to Canada.? I didn?t get to Chester until day 93.? It was only 68 more days from there to Canada.? On day 81, I was a couple of days out ofSouth Lake Tahoe.
-??????????Embrace thebrutality?.? Coined for the CDT, but thespirit is applicable to the PCT.? FromP-Mags - ?Now, there seems to be some confusion over the meaning of thisstatement.? It is not for braggingrights, or to say how difficult the CDT may be or to make the trail out to bemiserable.? It is what a sarcastic, bluntEast Coast guy says to another sarcastic, blunt East Coast guy.? Namely: Suck it up. Quit your whining. Takethe trail experience for what it is. Enjoy it all.?
IMO
YMMV.? 
HYOH. 
 Free advice is worth what you paid for it.? 
Opinions are like pie holes, everybody has one.? 
Yadda, yadda, yadda.......
?

From andrew at adventurescientists.org  Wed May 30 16:02:51 2018
From: andrew at adventurescientists.org (Andrew Howley)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2018 15:02:51 -0600
Subject: [pct-l] Adventurous volunteer opportunity this summer
Message-ID: <CAMrKM4k5CUa8NquMathu-FK4k-2B3vVYFJBWw0aQ1ybRPWpCkQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ever wished your hikes could be part of something bigger?


This summer, you can apply to volunteer with Adventure Scientists to
collect bigleaf maple leaf samples from the back country. Geneticists will
then build a DNA database that will be able to reveal the point of origin
of timber that may have been illegally harvested. In the coming years, the
process can be replicated worldwide, deal a major blow to the illegal
timber industry, and help protect our forests everywhere.


Learn more, grab a friend, and apply!

http://www.adventurescientists.org/timber-volunteers.html

From pctpanama at aol.com  Thu May 31 08:54:42 2018
From: pctpanama at aol.com (Brian Gill)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 06:54:42 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Re Off-topic things
Message-ID: <61418414-F3F3-4C55-9C50-390DECB7616D@aol.com>

My sincere apologies to anyone that was offended by my post . It was an Ambien post at 2 AM... lol.  

"Sent from my iPhone"

       Brian