From tumstead96 at gmail.com  Fri Jul  1 17:17:26 2022
From: tumstead96 at gmail.com (Tim Umstead)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 15:17:26 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Triple Crown and all finishing certificates and medals
Message-ID: <CAD3yqM3UfbeSScN_U_ZEtxu_N+R1pqK1CB5Cy-EX0yPK0u-kQA@mail.gmail.com>

I agree!

As my family thru-hiked all three trails we made it a point to have
continuous footprints.  There were many times one or all of us would have
to hike back to where we got off trail, just so we could be continuous.
Getting around a fire is not that hard, you just have to be willing to hike
on roads.  And if you are not willing to hike on a road then stay off the
CDT.  When my wife and I first hiked the PCT (1996) the term Yellow Blazer
was an insult and anyone who did it tried to hide the fact.  Nowadays,
there are so many people getting rides that, first time thru-hikers, think
it is ok to do it, and the practice continues to grow.  Think of the
uproar if someone who just made a new FKT was proven to have gotten a ride.
I think anyone doing a long trail should be held to that standard.

There is a problem with the phase "hike your own hike". It gives people
permission to do whatever they want, make up any rules, or break any
rules.  It is a term that says don't judge me.  I'm sorry, when I'm hiking
one of the long trails and I see someone skipping, I think less of them.
And that's that.

Papa Raven
PCT 96, 15
CDT 17
AT 19

From tumstead96 at gmail.com  Fri Jul  1 17:21:26 2022
From: tumstead96 at gmail.com (Tim Umstead)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 15:21:26 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Permethrin from livestock supply stores
Message-ID: <CAD3yqM18SDN+hZjbeZ55DVDGjYTC=NZnyZWFr8NrUstHKwqTbg@mail.gmail.com>

We used Permethrin when we hiked the AT.  What we got was 0.5% permethrin
from our local hardware store.  It was bottled as a bed lice spray and a
16oz bottle was about $6.

Papa Raven
PCT 96, 15
CDT 17
AT 19

From marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com  Fri Jul  1 18:21:12 2022
From: marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com (marmot marmot)
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2022 23:21:12 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Triple Crown and all finishing certificates and medals
In-Reply-To: <CAD3yqM3UfbeSScN_U_ZEtxu_N+R1pqK1CB5Cy-EX0yPK0u-kQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD3yqM3UfbeSScN_U_ZEtxu_N+R1pqK1CB5Cy-EX0yPK0u-kQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MW5PR06MB895551E5E2CC541AE6A9E16CC8BD9@MW5PR06MB8955.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>

In my view it does not matter what you do as long as you do not take credit for something you didn?t. Hike your hike ?but don?t lie
On your honor means just that. Continuous Footpath. Even if we are talking about road walking or bushwhacking. 
See everyone at the Gathering. 
Marmot

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 1, 2022, at 3:17 PM, Tim Umstead <tumstead96 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?I agree!
> 
> As my family thru-hiked all three trails we made it a point to have
> continuous footprints.  There were many times one or all of us would have
> to hike back to where we got off trail, just so we could be continuous.
> Getting around a fire is not that hard, you just have to be willing to hike
> on roads.  And if you are not willing to hike on a road then stay off the
> CDT.  When my wife and I first hiked the PCT (1996) the term Yellow Blazer
> was an insult and anyone who did it tried to hide the fact.  Nowadays,
> there are so many people getting rides that, first time thru-hikers, think
> it is ok to do it, and the practice continues to grow.  Think of the
> uproar if someone who just made a new FKT was proven to have gotten a ride.
> I think anyone doing a long trail should be held to that standard.
> 
> There is a problem with the phase "hike your own hike". It gives people
> permission to do whatever they want, make up any rules, or break any
> rules.  It is a term that says don't judge me.  I'm sorry, when I'm hiking
> one of the long trails and I see someone skipping, I think less of them.
> And that's that.
> 
> Papa Raven
> PCT 96, 15
> CDT 17
> AT 19
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From dhbmallard at comcast.net  Sat Jul  2 09:47:22 2022
From: dhbmallard at comcast.net (Dave Baugher)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 07:47:22 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Suggestions
Message-ID: <FD6E540A8C9046D1925B3130C897AD3A@DESKTOP4A9LNHS>

Greetings,

Any suggestions on getting a ride from SeaTac to Snoqualmie in mid-July?

Dave a.k.a ?Chief?

From richardb10 at live.com  Sat Jul  2 17:54:10 2022
From: richardb10 at live.com (Richard Brinkman)
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 22:54:10 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] Suggestions
In-Reply-To: <FD6E540A8C9046D1925B3130C897AD3A@DESKTOP4A9LNHS>
References: <FD6E540A8C9046D1925B3130C897AD3A@DESKTOP4A9LNHS>
Message-ID: <MWHPR18MB12006FA45E9B3685955A0B47A7BC9@MWHPR18MB1200.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>

Hey Chief!

Wenatchee Valley Shuttle runs several trips a day from Seatac to the Big Y (the junction for Hwy 97 South to I-90) https://www.wenatcheevalleyshuttle.com/

You however would have to hitch from there unless there is Greyhound or Trailways service from Wenatchee.  I would offer to give you that ride from the Big Y to Snoqualmie Pass but I am going to be on trail myself.  Best,

Roadwalker

Wenatchee Valley Shuttle - Shuttling Between Sea-Tac and Wenatchee<https://www.wenatcheevalleyshuttle.com/>
Call Center Hours Monday-Friday 5:00am-9:00pm, Saturday & Sunday 5:00am-9:00pm
www.wenatcheevalleyshuttle.com



________________________________
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Dave Baugher <dhbmallard at comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 7:47 AM
To: PCT Backcountry <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Suggestions

Greetings,

Any suggestions on getting a ride from SeaTac to Snoqualmie in mid-July?

Dave a.k.a ?Chief?
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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From carolwbruno at yahoo.com  Mon Jul  4 08:29:11 2022
From: carolwbruno at yahoo.com (carol bruno)
Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2022 13:29:11 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Suggestions
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1656867601.49931.pct-l@backcountry.net>
References: <mailman.1.1656867601.49931.pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <564761224.1358871.1656941351244@mail.yahoo.com>


I actually ubered it the year I went out! ?Around $75 but I?m sure twice that now:/Best?of luck!Can?t Quit

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


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? 1. Re: Suggestions (Richard Brinkman)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2022 22:54:10 +0000
From: Richard Brinkman <richardb10 at live.com>
To: PCT Backcountry <pct-l at backcountry.net>, Dave Baugher
??? <dhbmallard at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Suggestions
Message-ID:
??? <MWHPR18MB12006FA45E9B3685955A0B47A7BC9 at MWHPR18MB1200.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
??? 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Hey Chief!

Wenatchee Valley Shuttle runs several trips a day from Seatac to the Big Y (the junction for Hwy 97 South to I-90) https://www.wenatcheevalleyshuttle.com/

You however would have to hitch from there unless there is Greyhound or Trailways service from Wenatchee.? I would offer to give you that ride from the Big Y to Snoqualmie Pass but I am going to be on trail myself.? Best,

Roadwalker

Wenatchee Valley Shuttle - Shuttling Between Sea-Tac and Wenatchee<https://www.wenatcheevalleyshuttle.com/>
Call Center Hours Monday-Friday 5:00am-9:00pm, Saturday & Sunday 5:00am-9:00pm
www.wenatcheevalleyshuttle.com



________________________________
From: Pct-L <pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> on behalf of Dave Baugher <dhbmallard at comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 7:47 AM
To: PCT Backcountry <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: [pct-l] Suggestions

Greetings,

Any suggestions on getting a ride from SeaTac to Snoqualmie in mid-July?

Dave a.k.a ?Chief?
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

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Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


------------------------------

Subject: Digest Footer

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------------------------------

End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 152, Issue 2
*************************************




From sesexton at gci.net  Thu Jul  7 20:34:36 2022
From: sesexton at gci.net (Shaun Sextn)
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2022 17:34:36 -0800
Subject: [pct-l] Triple Crown and all finishing certificates and medals
In-Reply-To: <CAD3yqM3UfbeSScN_U_ZEtxu_N+R1pqK1CB5Cy-EX0yPK0u-kQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAD3yqM3UfbeSScN_U_ZEtxu_N+R1pqK1CB5Cy-EX0yPK0u-kQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6D0737CC-A11A-4EBD-8C7F-23AD1DF37161@gci.net>

Three atta boys PR. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 1, 2022, at 2:17 PM, Tim Umstead <tumstead96 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?I agree!
> 
> As my family thru-hiked all three trails we made it a point to have
> continuous footprints.  There were many times one or all of us would have
> to hike back to where we got off trail, just so we could be continuous.
> Getting around a fire is not that hard, you just have to be willing to hike
> on roads.  And if you are not willing to hike on a road then stay off the
> CDT.  When my wife and I first hiked the PCT (1996) the term Yellow Blazer
> was an insult and anyone who did it tried to hide the fact.  Nowadays,
> there are so many people getting rides that, first time thru-hikers, think
> it is ok to do it, and the practice continues to grow.  Think of the
> uproar if someone who just made a new FKT was proven to have gotten a ride.
> I think anyone doing a long trail should be held to that standard.
> 
> There is a problem with the phase "hike your own hike". It gives people
> permission to do whatever they want, make up any rules, or break any
> rules.  It is a term that says don't judge me.  I'm sorry, when I'm hiking
> one of the long trails and I see someone skipping, I think less of them.
> And that's that.
> 
> Papa Raven
> PCT 96, 15
> CDT 17
> AT 19
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.


From pctl at marcusschwartz.com  Tue Jul 12 14:44:35 2022
From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food)
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2022 12:44:35 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Oil of Lemon Eucalyptus scent
Message-ID: <9f93e8d3-c19d-7ec9-9344-d4d4de664ad9@marcusschwartz.com>

Hi PCT-L,

I've noticed Oil of Lemon Eucalyptus mosquito repellent growing in 
popularity lately.  Consumer Reports' testing shows it as probably 
better than picaridin, which is my current go-to (I avoid DEET due to 
the risk of damage to synthetic fabrics).

I haven't tried OLE yet though, partly because it sounds like it would 
be fragrant.  I'm concerned that, like scented toiletries, it would 
smell like potential human food to wildlife, and attract mice and other 
pests.

Has anybody used OLE bug repellent in an area where food smells are an 
issue?  Did you have any problems?

Thanks,
  -=Town Food

From pctl at oakapple.net  Wed Jul 13 09:36:58 2022
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 07:36:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pct-l] section J
Message-ID: <202207131436.26DEawnE029668@server-f.oakapple.net>


Over the next couple of weekends I hope to fill in some gaps in section J,
from Boulder Lake trail junction (north of Sonora Pass) to Parkdale Summit
(just north of The Nipple, Lost Lakes, and Upper Blue Lake).

This late in a drought year I expect the ice chute issues on Raymond Peak
are manageable.     No other issues are listed in section J on pcta.org.
Anybody know anything different?

Smoke issues are moderate in this area at the moment from the Electra Fire.
The Washburn Fire is an issue further south in Yosemite.    The next few
days are supposed to be windy, so hopefully nothing new is ignited.

David Hough

From susan at newstories.org  Mon Jul 18 16:40:11 2022
From: susan at newstories.org (Susan Virnig)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 14:40:11 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Tyndall Creek 775 from the west?
Message-ID: <CA+zvBRwOGR_1_J_HXbfRi6O+TxCLVdYnW9EjB=UnRvXqhB9WwQ@mail.gmail.com>

I?m a section hiker from Spokane and you all have been very helpful in the
past.  I?m trying to get into the PCT around mile 775 by Tyndall Creek, to
have a continuous connection.  (Last year left via Shepherd Pass, which is
a crazy trail ? 9000? elevation gain/loss in 6 miles.)

Currently have a permit to go back into Shepherd Pass, but am wondering if
there is a way from the west to get back up to the PCT that is not quite so
steep and hopefully better maintained.  Any suggestions?

?Sunshine/Susan from Spokane

From susanvirnig at gmail.com  Mon Jul 18 16:49:16 2022
From: susanvirnig at gmail.com (Susan Virnig)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 14:49:16 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Tyndall Creek mile 775 from the west?
In-Reply-To: <202207131436.26DEawnE029668@server-f.oakapple.net>
References: <202207131436.26DEawnE029668@server-f.oakapple.net>
Message-ID: <CA+oit0B5GnHX5oKgNfTF8_2MEdzO8TeAi_txxLGXr3W4e4cYjQ@mail.gmail.com>

NOTE:  having trouble sending to the listserve so am trying piggybacking on
David?s request.


I?m a section hiker from Spokane and you all have been very helpful in the
past.  I?m trying to get into the PCT around mile 775 by Tyndall Creek, to
have a continuous connection.  (Last year left via Shepherd Pass, which is
a crazy trail ? 9000? elevation gain/loss in 6 miles.)

Currently have a permit to go back into Shepherd Pass, but am wondering if
there is a way from the west to get back up to the PCT that is not quite so
steep and hopefully better maintained.  Any suggestions?

?Sunshine/Susan from Spokane


On July 13, 2022 at 7:37:14 AM, David Hough reading PCT-L (pctl at oakapple.net)
wrote:


Over the next couple of weekends I hope to fill in some gaps in section J,
from Boulder Lake trail junction (north of Sonora Pass) to Parkdale Summit
(just north of The Nipple, Lost Lakes, and Upper Blue Lake).

This late in a drought year I expect the ice chute issues on Raymond Peak
are manageable. No other issues are listed in section J on pcta.org.
Anybody know anything different?

Smoke issues are moderate in this area at the moment from the Electra Fire.
The Washburn Fire is an issue further south in Yosemite. The next few
days are supposed to be windy, so hopefully nothing new is ignited.

David Hough
_______________________________________________
Pct-L mailing list
Pct-L at backcountry.net
To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

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All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From susanvirnig at gmail.com  Mon Jul 18 16:56:06 2022
From: susanvirnig at gmail.com (Susan Virnig)
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 14:56:06 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] help getting PCT information
In-Reply-To: <CAGxcj10sjmmw2MoCqb=rqtxC040Sq6pNAvn+3oeuC1e1HC2--g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BYAPR04MB594115503BB6BAF104BBB44DC8D29@BYAPR04MB5941.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
 <BYAPR04MB59413545EA5754E532CB894EC8D29@BYAPR04MB5941.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAGxcj10sjmmw2MoCqb=rqtxC040Sq6pNAvn+3oeuC1e1HC2--g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+oit0CFGzDLdSDtRh9tdwH+R2RZ-Xxyi-Ym_vNm+2uX8TO_fA@mail.gmail.com>

Can?t get this posted on oakapple or on pct-l.  Can you help and/or answer
my question?  Thanks!

I?m a section hiker from Spokane and you all have been very helpful in the
past.  I?m trying to get into the PCT around mile 775 by Tyndall Creek, to
have a continuous connection.  (Last year left via Shepherd Pass, which is
a crazy trail ? 9000? elevation gain/loss in 6 miles.)

Currently have a permit to go back into Shepherd Pass, but am wondering if
there is a way from the west to get back up to the PCT that is not quite so
steep and hopefully better maintained.  Any suggestions?

?Sunshine/Susan from Spokane


On September 5, 2021 at 9:57:48 PM, Scott Williams (baidarker at gmail.com)
wrote:

Hey Marmot,

I had a few weeks free time this summer, as our big trips had all been
canceled due to Covid, and I jumped back on the PCT at Sonora Pass and
hiked about 350 miles to Fire Fly's place at Old Station, and I have to
say, the young folks and the older ones, were a wonderful bunch. There
were a few wasteoids hanging around the hostel in South Shore Tahoe, but
for the most part, the trail was populated with a motivated, often highly
educated, and fun bunch of thru hikers. I really enjoyed meeting them,
camping with them and getting to know them. Drugs were not the central
thing for most, and living in the beauty of the trail was. Of the older
crowd, I hiked with the usual, doctors, lawyers, teachers, nurses, etc.
and with the younger set, young men just out of the service, and lots of
young folks just out of college, and quite a few who had decided on a
nomadic life for a while. I had been ready to be unimpressed with the
pack, but found myself really liking the vast majority of whom I met. So
maybe the PCT hasn't totally gone the way of the unmotivated, drugged out
hikers you met on the AT. At least my limited 350 mile sample left me
thinking so. And it was so nice to see Georgi on her home turf!

Nice to hear from ya,

Shroomer

On Sun, Sep 5, 2021 at 8:07 PM marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: marmot marmot <marmotwestvanc at hotmail.com>
> Date: September 5, 2021 at 5:53:50 PM PDT
> To: David Hough reading PCT-L <pctl at oakapple.net>, PCT <
> pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] end of an era
>
> ?
> ?I guess the PCT will survive. It will exist for hikers to continue to
> attempt to hike to Canada. As we all know ,people used to fly,bus, take a
> train to San Diego catch the trolley then Bus to Campo and walk to border.
> It used to really bother me when there was a switch from people talking
> about where they were on the trail using place names?certain passes,water
> sources, lakes. I had to just let it be true that all they talked about
was
> miles. I got used to running into hikers who could not read a map and did
> not even carry one. Except of course on their phones,that as most hikers
> know,can easily break and often do. We used to know/learn how fast we
could
> hike given the elevation gain and loss and therefore know how much
> water/food we needed to carry. Those skills may never be learned by most
> hikers out there these days. The sense of where we are in space is
internal
> and can be tapped into. Awareness of the shape of the trail tread and the
> corresponding Mtns and valleys?how it all fits together tells your brain
> where you are especially if you can read a map and verify. I did start,
> when I was new to long distance hiking, carrying an extra meal in case I
> miscalculated. Sometimes I came into town a little hungry. Just recently I
> injured myself on a trail and hikers gave me extra food to make it to town
> because I was walking so slowly. But I checked out my maps (re -checked it
> with another hiker)and saw a short cut I could take to get to town faster.
> I was lucky that I got to stay on trail and not miss any of the route.
> Just as most birds and animals know where they are, can place themselves
> in their surroundings, humans to a lesser extent (don?t know what we could
> actually capable of doing) can do the same. But not if they are looking
> constantly at their phones. It disconnects your brain from its inner
> navigational sense.This skill takes time and it is not easy. It can get a
> bit scary while you learn. Some people might not try. It?s difficult I
> admit.
> I want as many people as possible to experience a long distance trail. I
> love that we all encourage new people to go on all the trails. But
> sometimes all the ?help? disconnects people from what the trail offers.
> It?s as if they get rescued over and over as they head north and never
> learn what they can do. I know how seductive the town stops are. Sometimes
> all I can think about is a hot shower?more than food.
> Frankly ,from both ends of the AT(my most recent hike ) northbound and
> southbound I got so tired of hearing the endless conversations about how
> much dope they were taking(of all kinds)and how many miles that meant they
> could mindlessly hike. It seemed to take about 200-500 miles for those
> people to disappear. I would hate to see the PCT turn into that mess.
Maybe
> it already has. The last time I was on the PCT was 2015. Could be that is
> is unalterably changed. Maybe It?s just rushing from town to town, trail
> angel to trail angel and not ?living? on the trail which was always ,for
> me,the best feeling.
> What is wrong with allowing yourself to learn what is possible?
> Marmot
>
>
>
> <image0.jpeg>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 5, 2021, at 2:31 PM, David Hough reading PCT-L <pctl at oakapple.net>
> wrote:
>
> ?
>
>
https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/hiking-and-backpacking/pacific-crest-trail-angels-retiring/
>
> Another scarce resource exploited until exhausted.
>
> Still, the PCT in a drought year without water caches is a pretty big
> challenge. Without free food, lodging, and laundry, not so much.
>
> Of course, if more hikers were willing to pay for personal services, there
> might be more personal services available.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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>
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> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> _______________________________________________
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>
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> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
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From pctl at oakapple.net  Wed Jul 20 07:52:07 2022
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 05:52:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pct-l] hope you weren't hoping for a hitch on Ebbetts Pass on
 Saturday!
Message-ID: <202207201252.26KCq7kV003366@server-f.oakapple.net>


Did you know about this?

http://www.ebbettspassadventures.com/events/death_ride.html

I didn't.   Caltrans in Sacramento didn't.   I checked the morning of July 16
for highway conditions on Highway 4 on the Caltrans website - nothing listed.
Then when I got to Angels Camp, a big orange sign -

Ebbetts Pass Closed
at Lake Alpine
Sat July 16, 2022
Detour via 49/88/89

So I had to make a quick replan of my section J adventure.
Separate email follows about that.

Maybe this needs to be on the PCTA website since it seems to be annual.

A couple of days later, the support tents and portapotties were still set up
along Hwy 4.

This event is limited to the first 3000 participants.    PCTA through hiking
is a much smaller deal!   But there were two or three dozen through hikers
every day on the trail, even though it's a bit late by traditional reckoning
for north bound through hikers.   Cancelling ADZPCTKO and quotas on through
hiking permits has flattened the traditional wave I guess.

From pctl at oakapple.net  Wed Jul 20 08:16:52 2022
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 06:16:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pct-l] Shepherd Pass alternate
Message-ID: <202207201316.26KDGqfH009969@server-f.oakapple.net>


I'm not sure how well this got out, so I'll give it another try for Susan:

> From: Susan Virnig <susan at newstories.org>
> Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 14:53:56 -0700
> 
> I=E2=80=99m a section hiker from Spokane and you all have been very helpful=
>  in the
> past.  I=E2=80=99m trying to get into the PCT around mile 775 by Tyndall Cr=
> eek, to
> have a continuous connection.  (Last year left via Shepherd Pass, which is
> a crazy trail =E2=80=94 9000=E2=80=99 elevation gain/loss in 6 miles.)
> 
> Currently have a permit to go back into Shepherd Pass, but am wondering if
> there is a way from the west to get back up to the PCT that is not quite so
> steep and hopefully better maintained.  Any suggestions?
> 
> =E2=80=94Sunshine/Susan from Spokane

The desert passes from the east side are all bad news.

Besides Shepherd, there's Taboose, Baxter, and Sawmill.   I've only done
Taboose, and only downhill.    Never again.    Baxter is not maintained
at all, I think.    Shepherd is mostly used by mountaineers hoping for
Mt Williamson, I think.     The upside is that nobody will be checking
wilderness permits on any of these routes, I think.

You could get to Tyndall Creek from the west side, but it would take a
very long time.   The High Sierra Trail from Crescent Meadow is 50
miles to the PCT.   I am away from home and don't have maps handy to see
if you can do much better from another west side trailhead.   A Mt Whitney
permit, if you can get one, would be easier.


From gary at hbfun.org  Wed Jul 20 09:54:29 2022
From: gary at hbfun.org (gary at hbfun.org)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 07:54:29 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] hope you weren't hoping for a hitch on Ebbetts Pass on
 Saturday!
In-Reply-To: <202207201252.26KCq7kV003366@server-f.oakapple.net>
References: <202207201252.26KCq7kV003366@server-f.oakapple.net>
Message-ID: <e3bfc92b41a85e1fa33eb0fb4e166ef3@hbfun.org>

Fun fact: one of the founders of the Death Ride, Wayne Martin, is also 
one of the first, and he says the first, to complete a thruhike of the 
PCT.


On 2022-07-20 05:52, David Hough reading PCT-L wrote:
> Did you know about this?
> 
> http://www.ebbettspassadventures.com/events/death_ride.html
> 
> I didn't.   Caltrans in Sacramento didn't.   I checked the morning of 
> July 16
> for highway conditions on Highway 4 on the Caltrans website - nothing 
> listed.
> Then when I got to Angels Camp, a big orange sign -
> 
> Ebbetts Pass Closed
> at Lake Alpine
> Sat July 16, 2022
> Detour via 49/88/89
> 
> So I had to make a quick replan of my section J adventure.
> Separate email follows about that.
> 
> Maybe this needs to be on the PCTA website since it seems to be annual.
> 
> A couple of days later, the support tents and portapotties were still 
> set up
> along Hwy 4.
> 
> This event is limited to the first 3000 participants.    PCTA through 
> hiking
> is a much smaller deal!   But there were two or three dozen through 
> hikers
> every day on the trail, even though it's a bit late by traditional 
> reckoning
> for north bound through hikers.   Cancelling ADZPCTKO and quotas on 
> through
> hiking permits has flattened the traditional wave I guess.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From gary at hbfun.org  Wed Jul 20 10:05:03 2022
From: gary at hbfun.org (gary at hbfun.org)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 08:05:03 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Shepherd Pass alternate
In-Reply-To: <202207201316.26KDGqfH009969@server-f.oakapple.net>
References: <202207201316.26KDGqfH009969@server-f.oakapple.net>
Message-ID: <dcbca5f30b55c37d5bdf481ac4a57ebc@hbfun.org>

IMHO, it would be best to just bite the bullet and go over Shepherd. 
Unless you want to really get a taste of the Sierra.

Starting at Crescent Meadow and going through Bear Paw Meadow then over 
to the Big Arroyo and down to the Kern River would be long, but well 
worth it.

Sawmill Pass is beautiful, but starts very low, IIRC it?s 8000? of gain 
to the pass. Nice camps along the way so it could be done in two days. 
Same with Taboose, there?s a camp with water on the way up.

Gary

On 2022-07-20 06:16, David Hough reading PCT-L wrote:
> I'm not sure how well this got out, so I'll give it another try for 
> Susan:
> 
>> From: Susan Virnig <susan at newstories.org>
>> Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2022 14:53:56 -0700
>> 
>> I=E2=80=99m a section hiker from Spokane and you all have been very 
>> helpful=
>>  in the
>> past.  I=E2=80=99m trying to get into the PCT around mile 775 by 
>> Tyndall Cr=
>> eek, to
>> have a continuous connection.  (Last year left via Shepherd Pass, 
>> which is
>> a crazy trail =E2=80=94 9000=E2=80=99 elevation gain/loss in 6 miles.)
>> 
>> Currently have a permit to go back into Shepherd Pass, but am 
>> wondering if
>> there is a way from the west to get back up to the PCT that is not 
>> quite so
>> steep and hopefully better maintained.  Any suggestions?
>> 
>> =E2=80=94Sunshine/Susan from Spokane
> 
> The desert passes from the east side are all bad news.
> 
> Besides Shepherd, there's Taboose, Baxter, and Sawmill.   I've only 
> done
> Taboose, and only downhill.    Never again.    Baxter is not maintained
> at all, I think.    Shepherd is mostly used by mountaineers hoping for
> Mt Williamson, I think.     The upside is that nobody will be checking
> wilderness permits on any of these routes, I think.
> 
> You could get to Tyndall Creek from the west side, but it would take a
> very long time.   The High Sierra Trail from Crescent Meadow is 50
> miles to the PCT.   I am away from home and don't have maps handy to 
> see
> if you can do much better from another west side trailhead.   A Mt 
> Whitney
> permit, if you can get one, would be easier.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From pctl at oakapple.net  Wed Jul 20 10:24:42 2022
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 08:24:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pct-l] Shepherd Pass alternate
Message-ID: <202207201524.26KFOgDw000811@server-f.oakapple.net>

If you have the time and the strenth and can get the permit -

https://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/high-sierra-trail.htm

The High Sierra Trail is a truly classic hike by all accounts.

I've only been as far as Bearpaw Meadow, though, and time has taken its toll
and I don't think I could do the whole HST now.   
Then after you get to the PCT, you have to get out somehow.
A three day backpack is about as much as I dare now - 40 miles at most. 

There's a famous hot tub near the Kern River, to take some of the pain out
from going down into the canyon and back up.

https://www.summitpost.org/high-sierra-trail-kern-hot-springs/845641

But avoid climbing the Kaweahs in the Great Western Divide.   I've known a
couple of people who got hurt there.  Rotten rock I guess.



From pctl at oakapple.net  Wed Jul 20 18:33:06 2022
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2022 16:33:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pct-l] section J wanderings
Message-ID: <202207202333.26KNX6Dm012953@server-f.oakapple.net>


In my quest to recomplete the High Sierra, I managed to get a few miles in
this weekend despite the surprise of the Death Ride closure of Hwy 4.
Dayhikes covered Noble Lake to Eagle Creek, Raymond Lake Trail Junction to
Sunset Lakes, and base of the Nipple to Forestdale Divide,
Dates are 16-19 July, mileposts are Halfmile's 2019 edition.

All of Halfmile's perennial water sources that I visited still look perennial -

1044 Noble Lake
1046 Noble Creek, several branches
1049 Sherrold Lake
1059 Raymond Lake Creek
1060 Pleasant Valley Creek

and in addition -

1046.5,1047.5 - 
	There are several seasonal runoffs from snowbanks on cliffs above.
	That they were still running this year indicates they are
	probably reliable for northbound through hiker season.
1053 - seasonal Eagle Creek
	The main creek was dry at the trail but flowing slightly
	30 feet downstream; maybe good for another week?
	A smaller tributary just to the south was flowing better and clearly,
	probably from unseen snowbanks in the cliffs, and might be
	good for another week or two.
	There are a number of fair campsites just past the main creek.
1061-1064 - Tamarack off-road area
	There's lots of water to be found, mostly too stagnant to mention.
1070 - Lost Lakes
	Plenty of water, and jeep campers.
1071.5 - 
	There's a small stagnant pond just below Forestdale Divide,
	complete with a tent right next to it from a jeep camper.
	Better water should be at 1073 but I didn't get that far.

There were 2-3 dozen northbound through hikers each day, 
enjoying flowers that seemed to be at their peak.   None warned us about
troubles ahead so presumably the issue at

https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-trail/trail-condition/washed-out-slippery-trail/

is manageable.

And the ice gullies that discouraged me in June 2020 -

https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-trail/trail-condition/dangerous-conditions-north-sonora-pass/

are now lovely flower gullies in July 2022.

The trail is rather slender in spots, particularly in the worst ice/flower
gully.    No passing lanes.
But there are no insurmountable obstacles to stock anywhere I visited.

One thing I don't remember from before is the number of apparent long-distance
hikers with dogs.   It seemed as if almmost every party had a dog.

From bbraunlaw at yahoo.com  Wed Jul 20 21:48:35 2022
From: bbraunlaw at yahoo.com (Barrett Braun)
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2022 02:48:35 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 152, Issue 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1658336401.68794.pct-l@backcountry.net>
References: <mailman.1.1658336401.68794.pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <1497539831.119936.1658371715804@mail.yahoo.com>

 Yes, the Death Ride is a very big deal.? Done it, some, and the PCT, some.? Hope to do more PCT.? Sorry that it messed you up.? Ebbets is the prettiest of the passes the bikers do.?
Madfoot Section Hiker 2003

From pctl at oakapple.net  Thu Jul 28 00:12:47 2022
From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L)
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2022 22:12:47 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [pct-l] more jaunts in section J
Message-ID: <202207280512.26S5CktN027934@server-f.oakapple.net>


Over 22-25 July I visited (south to north) TR1041 Wolf Creek Pass 
to WACS1044 Noble Lake,
and TR1048 Ebbetts Pass to TR1058 Raymond Lake Trail Junction.
All mileposts are Halfmile 2019 edition.

Water -

All the perennial water sources listed by Halfmile looked perennial -

WA1041 Asa Lake and outlet
WACS1044 Noble Lake

WACS1049 Sherrold Lake
WACS1055 Pennsylvania Creek
WA1057 small creek, with several seasonal creeks nearby

Also 
CS1053 Eagle Creek still had one small tributary still flowing at the trail,
though it looked a bit weaker than last week.   Eagle Creek looks like
it is always flowing if you are willing to go deeper into its canyon
later in the season.    That does not look like fun.

Obstacles -

Checked out

https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-trail/trail-condition/washed-out-slippery-trail/

It's located just south of WA1057.   It is indeed slender and slippery but 
through hikers probably won't notice it after all they've been through.
More casual hikers just need to be careful.    It actually might be safer
for stock than hikers - four legs might help.   It's not clear that 
it can be fixed much - very loose sand between hard rocks.    It might have
always been this way, rather than washed out recently. 
There are several spots further on that are one-lane, no shoulder, but safe
enough now that the ice gullies have melted into flowers.

About half a mile further north There is a standard size 18" tree on a steep 
slope that might be difficult for stock to bypass.

Comments -

A number of hikers were struggling with the decision whether to get off the
trail at Ebbetts Pass.    The smoke from the Oak Fire was sometimes strong
enough to irritate eyes, but mostly just visible as haze.

Nowadays many through hikers seem to wear lightweight hoodies, which is a 
change from the distant past.    
No brim on the hat means more sun on the face, but
you don't have to worry about the hat blowing away, a real issue in a few
spots around Raymond Peak and The Nipple.

David Hough
 

From gary at hbfun.org  Thu Jul 28 11:33:49 2022
From: gary at hbfun.org (gary at hbfun.org)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2022 09:33:49 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] more jaunts in section J
In-Reply-To: <202207280512.26S5CktN027934@server-f.oakapple.net>
References: <202207280512.26S5CktN027934@server-f.oakapple.net>
Message-ID: <f4def64db12db98609ed8774676a8842@hbfun.org>

Nice report, thanks!

On 2022-07-27 22:12, David Hough reading PCT-L wrote:
> Over 22-25 July I visited (south to north) TR1041 Wolf Creek Pass
> to WACS1044 Noble Lake,
> and TR1048 Ebbetts Pass to TR1058 Raymond Lake Trail Junction.
> All mileposts are Halfmile 2019 edition.
> 
> Water -
> 
> All the perennial water sources listed by Halfmile looked perennial -
> 
> WA1041 Asa Lake and outlet
> WACS1044 Noble Lake
> 
> WACS1049 Sherrold Lake
> WACS1055 Pennsylvania Creek
> WA1057 small creek, with several seasonal creeks nearby
> 
> Also
> CS1053 Eagle Creek still had one small tributary still flowing at the 
> trail,
> though it looked a bit weaker than last week.   Eagle Creek looks like
> it is always flowing if you are willing to go deeper into its canyon
> later in the season.    That does not look like fun.
> 
> Obstacles -
> 
> Checked out
> 
> https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-trail/trail-condition/washed-out-slippery-trail/
> 
> It's located just south of WA1057.   It is indeed slender and slippery 
> but
> through hikers probably won't notice it after all they've been through.
> More casual hikers just need to be careful.    It actually might be 
> safer
> for stock than hikers - four legs might help.   It's not clear that
> it can be fixed much - very loose sand between hard rocks.    It might 
> have
> always been this way, rather than washed out recently.
> There are several spots further on that are one-lane, no shoulder, but 
> safe
> enough now that the ice gullies have melted into flowers.
> 
> About half a mile further north There is a standard size 18" tree on a 
> steep
> slope that might be difficult for stock to bypass.
> 
> Comments -
> 
> A number of hikers were struggling with the decision whether to get off 
> the
> trail at Ebbetts Pass.    The smoke from the Oak Fire was sometimes 
> strong
> enough to irritate eyes, but mostly just visible as haze.
> 
> Nowadays many through hikers seem to wear lightweight hoodies, which is 
> a
> change from the distant past.
> No brim on the hat means more sun on the face, but
> you don't have to worry about the hat blowing away, a real issue in a 
> few
> spots around Raymond Peak and The Nipple.
> 
> David Hough
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.

From rbalcorn at gmail.com  Fri Jul 29 23:23:57 2022
From: rbalcorn at gmail.com (Ralph Alcorn)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 21:23:57 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] 2012 did "listener" finish pct?
Message-ID: <CAAAw1RQGFS3_zUHyYFws5iOXJCJTOCCKyKT-OCfh2iWere=5+g@mail.gmail.com>

I heard back then that listener - an 80 year old woman was on the trail and
planning to finish. Does anyone know how she did?
Thanks,

-- 
Ralph Alcorn
backpack45.com, timecheck00.blogspot.com
Shepherd Canyon books, Publisher of*: Walk, Hike, Saunter: Seasoned Women
Share Tales and Trails, Healing Miles: Gifts from the Caminos Norte and
Primitivo, Patagonia Chronicle: On Foot in Torres del Paine*,* Camino
Chronicle: Walking to Santiago,** We're in the Mountains, Not Over the
Hill: Tales and Tips from Seasoned Women Backpackers*

From mrjenn at hotmail.com  Sat Jul 30 15:41:45 2022
From: mrjenn at hotmail.com (william jennings)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2022 20:41:45 +0000
Subject: [pct-l] "LISTENER"
Message-ID: <BY3PR17MB536153C11E2CBAE9D3664300DF989@BY3PR17MB5361.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>

There was a Marjorie "Listener" Byron, age 74, from Florida.  She visited The White Water Trail House on May 15, 2012.  She wasn't registered at the 2012 ADZPCTKO which was held on April 27-29.

Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>

From judithsmcguire at gmail.com  Sun Jul 31 12:17:24 2022
From: judithsmcguire at gmail.com (Judith McGuire)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:17:24 -0400
Subject: [pct-l] Seeking shuttle drive to/from Chinook Pass, WA mile 2324.8
Message-ID: <CANkEntWDgNKAcxbtfWZp4GNjPDmPg2YpA-igx62Sx_Jfbb+DUw@mail.gmail.com>

Need driver to/from Chinook Pass, WA (WayOut mile 2324.8) into Enumclaw WA
for resupply and back in September.  Know anybody?

Judo McGuire

From rbalcorn at gmail.com  Sun Jul 31 15:43:27 2022
From: rbalcorn at gmail.com (Ralph Alcorn)
Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2022 13:43:27 -0700
Subject: [pct-l] Listener
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1659286812.76358.pct-l@backcountry.net>
References: <mailman.1.1659286812.76358.pct-l@backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <CAAAw1RTht1hSt-8L6vjKAtcCT_HO=YcAfDL4oUwUfmob3Q7qTQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the updated info on listener

>
> There was a Marjorie "Listener" Byron, age 74, from Florida.  She visited
> The White Water Trail House on May 15, 2012.  She wasn't registered at the
> 2012 ADZPCTKO which was held on April 27-29.
>
> Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device
> Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:
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>
> List Archives:
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>
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 152, Issue 11
> **************************************
>