From pctl at marcusschwartz.com Thu Nov 10 20:48:11 2022 From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food) Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2022 18:48:11 -0800 Subject: [pct-l] Trip schedule planner? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Sorry for the long delay here. So far as I'm aware, it's generally not possible to predict a start date based on weather until about April, when winter snowstorms are likely to be mostly over. The closest thing to a calculator that I know of, at least when I hiked in 2016, was with this formula: (Day on which you should reach Kennedy Meadows) = June 1st + ((Snow depth in inches on April 1st at the Bighorn Plateau snow sensor) / 3.5) The snow depth in question can be looked up at the "California Data Exchange Center" from the California Water department. For example, since I hiked in 2016, I looked up the April measurement from this address: http://cdec4gov.water.ca.gov/dynamicapp/snowQuery?s=BGH&end=2016-05 Which showed 45.0 inches. So: Day to reach Kennedy Meadows = June 1st + (45.0 / 3.5 = 12.8 days) = June 14th I expected to hike 20 miles per day, and Kennedy Meadows is about 700 miles in, so: Days to get to Kennedy Meadows = 700 / 20 = 35 days So my start date was: June 14th - 35 days = May 10th To put it all into one formula: X = Start Date Y = Miles you can hike per day Z = Snow depth at Bighorn Plateau on April 1st X = June 1st + (Z / 3.5) - (700 / Y) If you looked at the above link, you may have noticed that the page is kind of broken -- it seems the Bighorn Plateau sensor is no longer listed in their index, and doesn't display results for recent years. I'm guessing it's not maintained anymore. I don't know why Bighorn Plateau was used for that formula, but maybe the Upper Tyndall Creek sensor, which is nearby, would be a suitable substitute. Its measurements for early April this past year can be found here: https://cdec.water.ca.gov/dynamicapp/QueryDaily?s=UTY&end=2022-04-15&span=30days Next year, your friends should be able to adjust that URL by changing "2022" to "2023". Note that you want to look at snow depth (called "SNOW DP" in the table from the link), not at snow water content or adjusted content. So far as online planners go, there is https://pctplanner.com/, but I don't think it tries to take snow pack into account. It's more for planning resupplies. (Which I don't really recommend in general, since for many people, appetites and preferences will change a great deal on trail, and options to pick up mailed resupplies are often poor on the PCT -- for example, post offices that are only open 4 days a week, for a few hours a day.) Ignoring calculators completely, 2016 was just about exactly an average year, snow-wise. And the May 10th start date worked well for me, and I hiked 20 mile days, like your friends are planning to (in fact, my average pace for the whole PCT worked out to 19.97 miles/day). So if they want to do preliminary planning under the assumption that this winter will be "average", a May 10th start date has my stamp of approval. Note, though, that I had a lot of experience with terrain and weather very similar to what the Southern California PCT is like in May/June, so I was confident that 20 miles/day would be reasonable for me. If they're not used to desert backpacking, it might be wise to assume lower mileage (or to find a desert to train in). -=Town Food On 10/26/22 13:26, Glen Van Peski wrote: > I?m trying to help out some Slovenian friends, and they?re trying to figure out a start date to apply for permits. Is there an online planner to help them with this process? Also, is there any ?consensus?, based on this winter, as to when an optimal start time would be, assuming these guys can do 20+ mile days? > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From sbryce at scottbryce.com Fri Nov 11 13:13:44 2022 From: sbryce at scottbryce.com (Scott Bryce) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2022 12:13:44 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] Shoes Message-ID: When I made my PCT through hike attempt, I wore Merrrell Moab Ventilators, primarily for the wide toe box. I have been wearing them ever since. My latest pair are wearing out, and I want to replace them. Reviews for the Moab 3 are not good. People are saying that the toe box is narrower, and they don't last. Is there a similar shoe that people recommend? I won't be wearing these on the PCT, but since PCT hikers are picky about shoes, I thought people here would have good recommendations. From pctl at marcusschwartz.com Fri Nov 11 13:42:16 2022 From: pctl at marcusschwartz.com (Town Food) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2022 11:42:16 -0800 Subject: [pct-l] Shoes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <312d7bec-00d1-1a06-9252-baab9ba08069@marcusschwartz.com> I loved the Altra Lone Peak 1, 2, and 3, for their large toe box among other reasons. The current generation, Lone Peak 6, I don't love, mainly because the toe box is now enormous, rather than merely large. Like the Moab Ventilators, the Lone Peak 6 also doesn't generally get as good reviews as their forebears, but if you want a really huge toe box, you might still want to at least try those on. -=Town Food On 11/11/22 11:13, Scott Bryce wrote: > When I made my PCT through hike attempt, I wore Merrrell Moab > Ventilators, primarily for the wide toe box. I have been wearing them > ever since. My latest pair are wearing out, and I want to replace them. > > Reviews for the Moab 3 are not good. People are saying that the toe box > is narrower, and they don't last. > > Is there a similar shoe that people recommend? I won't be wearing these > on the PCT, but since PCT hikers are picky about shoes, I thought people > here would have good recommendations. > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From pctl at oakapple.net Fri Nov 11 16:21:42 2022 From: pctl at oakapple.net (David Hough reading PCT-L) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2022 14:21:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: [pct-l] Shoes Message-ID: <202211112221.2ABMLg7w023800@server-f.oakapple.net> > I loved the Altra Lone Peak 1, 2, and 3 If you liked Altra Lone Peak except for the sole so thin you could read the date if you stepped on a penny, you might like Altra Olympus. I switched several years ago, based on advice from this list, and never looked back. I haven't noticed any significant differences from one generation to the next, but I'm not a LONG distance hiker any more, and that may be why. I don't mind the extra weight nearly as much as I minded the thin soles. From mrjenn at hotmail.com Fri Nov 11 16:27:52 2022 From: mrjenn at hotmail.com (william jennings) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2022 22:27:52 +0000 Subject: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 156, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ray Jardine recommended June 15 for Kennedy Meadows and this about 32 years ago. Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Pct-L on behalf of pct-l-request at backcountry.net Sent: Friday, November 11, 2022 10:00:01 AM To: pct-l at backcountry.net Subject: Pct-L Digest, Vol 156, Issue 1 Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to pct-l at backcountry.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pct-l-request at backcountry.net You can reach the person managing the list at pct-l-owner at backcountry.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Pct-L digest..." Please DELETE the copy of the complete digest from your reply. ONLY include stuff that applies to your reply Today's Topics: 1. Re: Trip schedule planner? (Town Food) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2022 18:48:11 -0800 From: Town Food To: pct-l at backcountry.net Subject: Re: [pct-l] Trip schedule planner? Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Hi, Sorry for the long delay here. So far as I'm aware, it's generally not possible to predict a start date based on weather until about April, when winter snowstorms are likely to be mostly over. The closest thing to a calculator that I know of, at least when I hiked in 2016, was with this formula: (Day on which you should reach Kennedy Meadows) = June 1st + ((Snow depth in inches on April 1st at the Bighorn Plateau snow sensor) / 3.5) The snow depth in question can be looked up at the "California Data Exchange Center" from the California Water department. For example, since I hiked in 2016, I looked up the April measurement from this address: http://cdec4gov.water.ca.gov/dynamicapp/snowQuery?s=BGH&end=2016-05 Which showed 45.0 inches. So: Day to reach Kennedy Meadows = June 1st + (45.0 / 3.5 = 12.8 days) = June 14th I expected to hike 20 miles per day, and Kennedy Meadows is about 700 miles in, so: Days to get to Kennedy Meadows = 700 / 20 = 35 days So my start date was: June 14th - 35 days = May 10th To put it all into one formula: X = Start Date Y = Miles you can hike per day Z = Snow depth at Bighorn Plateau on April 1st X = June 1st + (Z / 3.5) - (700 / Y) If you looked at the above link, you may have noticed that the page is kind of broken -- it seems the Bighorn Plateau sensor is no longer listed in their index, and doesn't display results for recent years. I'm guessing it's not maintained anymore. I don't know why Bighorn Plateau was used for that formula, but maybe the Upper Tyndall Creek sensor, which is nearby, would be a suitable substitute. Its measurements for early April this past year can be found here: https://cdec.water.ca.gov/dynamicapp/QueryDaily?s=UTY&end=2022-04-15&span=30days Next year, your friends should be able to adjust that URL by changing "2022" to "2023". Note that you want to look at snow depth (called "SNOW DP" in the table from the link), not at snow water content or adjusted content. So far as online planners go, there is https://pctplanner.com/, but I don't think it tries to take snow pack into account. It's more for planning resupplies. (Which I don't really recommend in general, since for many people, appetites and preferences will change a great deal on trail, and options to pick up mailed resupplies are often poor on the PCT -- for example, post offices that are only open 4 days a week, for a few hours a day.) Ignoring calculators completely, 2016 was just about exactly an average year, snow-wise. And the May 10th start date worked well for me, and I hiked 20 mile days, like your friends are planning to (in fact, my average pace for the whole PCT worked out to 19.97 miles/day). So if they want to do preliminary planning under the assumption that this winter will be "average", a May 10th start date has my stamp of approval. Note, though, that I had a lot of experience with terrain and weather very similar to what the Southern California PCT is like in May/June, so I was confident that 20 miles/day would be reasonable for me. If they're not used to desert backpacking, it might be wise to assume lower mileage (or to find a desert to train in). -=Town Food On 10/26/22 13:26, Glen Van Peski wrote: > I?m trying to help out some Slovenian friends, and they?re trying to figure out a start date to apply for permits. Is there an online planner to help them with this process? Also, is there any ?consensus?, based on this winter, as to when an optimal start time would be, assuming these guys can do 20+ mile days? > _______________________________________________ > Pct-L mailing list > Pct-L at backcountry.net > To unsubscribe, or change options visit: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l > > List Archives: > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. ------------------------------ End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 156, Issue 1 ************************************* From neil.lacey at comcast.net Fri Nov 11 18:24:53 2022 From: neil.lacey at comcast.net (neil.lacey) Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2022 19:24:53 -0500 Subject: [pct-l] Shoes In-Reply-To: <312d7bec-00d1-1a06-9252-baab9ba08069@marcusschwartz.com> Message-ID: teKMood6awQ3fteKNoVcPk.1668212696.d1524d02a10a6161ed53dec4bef75dbd.MISSINGID@comcast.net You can get the Lone Peak 6 in wide, which actually fits the enormous wide ball of my feet! -------- Original message --------From: Town Food Date: 11/11/22 2:48 PM (GMT-05:00) To: pct-l at backcountry.net Subject: Re: [pct-l] Shoes I loved the Altra Lone Peak 1, 2, and 3, for their large toe box among other reasons.? The current generation, Lone Peak 6, I don't love, mainly because the toe box is now enormous, rather than merely large.Like the Moab Ventilators, the Lone Peak 6 also doesn't generally get as good reviews as their forebears, but if you want a really huge toe box, you might still want to at least try those on.? -=Town FoodOn 11/11/22 11:13, Scott Bryce wrote:> When I made my PCT through hike attempt, I wore Merrrell Moab> Ventilators, primarily for the wide toe box. I have been wearing them> ever since. My latest pair are wearing out, and I want to replace them.> > Reviews for the Moab 3 are not good. People are saying that the toe box> is narrower, and they don't last.> > Is there a similar shoe that people recommend? I won't be wearing these> on the PCT, but since PCT hikers are picky about shoes, I thought people> here would have good recommendations.> _______________________________________________> Pct-L mailing list> Pct-L at backcountry.net> To unsubscribe, or change options visit:> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l> > List Archives:> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission._______________________________________________Pct-L mailing listPct-L at backcountry.netTo unsubscribe, or change options visit:http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-lList Archives:http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.Reproduction is prohibited without express permission. From paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com Tue Nov 29 22:49:37 2022 From: paintyourwagonhikes at gmail.com (Paint YW) Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2022 21:49:37 -0700 Subject: [pct-l] Requiem For A Boomer Message-ID: Why in the hell are you hearing from me- now, using this antiquated Morse Code like; means of communication... ? Honestly- I stumbled across the soundtrack to the PCT Class of 2015 Video- while taking a tour of Spotify, a music application that competes with the likes of Sirius Radio, and found (apparently) my listening history. One particular "noted" area of musical interest was the soundtrack to the PCT Class of 2015 Video. Credit must be given to Rachel Alison for her wise discernment in her musical selections AND if she produced the PCT Class of 2015 Video- BRAVO for the selections, BUT more importantly- kudos for her innate sense of wit and instinct when placing the right songs in the perfect PCT vignette. I am currently wintering in AZ. I am about 99% in for hiking the AZ Trail over the winter. You? Contact me if you want to do a walkabout in Zona. PCT (unfinished ) Class of 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 (NOBO & SOBO) (3,200 miles walked- missing 900 PCT miles- No. CA. & So. OR.) Also- A proud ground pounder and boat captain at Vermilion Valley Resort- mile 878.7 NOBO... 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022. My most famous (inaccurate) quote- The "trail" won't change ME! Paint From gary at hbfun.org Wed Nov 30 15:19:02 2022 From: gary at hbfun.org (gary at hbfun.org) Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2022 13:19:02 -0800 Subject: [pct-l] Requiem For A Boomer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2022-11-29 20:49, Paint YW wrote: > Why in the hell are you hearing from me- now, using this antiquated > Morse > Code like; means of communication... ? At least we've advanced beyond Usenet! I'm amazed this thing still functions. Brick hasn't given up yet, apparently. Not Too Appealing From mgypsy97 at aol.com Wed Nov 30 22:38:42 2022 From: mgypsy97 at aol.com (is) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2022 04:38:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [pct-l] Requiem For A Boomer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <477088172.86378.1669869522145@mail.yahoo.com> There are some of us who still like this format, and some who don't.? Why criticize those who don't see things the same way you do. Most people wouldn't want to walk hundreds and thousands of miles carrying everything they need in a backpack.? How old-fashioned!Gypsy97 On Wednesday, November 30, 2022 at 08:25:22 PM PST, gary at hbfun.org wrote: On 2022-11-29 20:49, Paint YW wrote: > Why in the hell are you hearing from me- now, using this antiquated > Morse > Code like; means of communication... ? At least we've advanced beyond Usenet! I'm amazed this thing still functions. Brick hasn't given up yet, apparently. Not Too Appealing _______________________________________________ Pct-L mailing list Pct-L at backcountry.net To unsubscribe, or change options visit: http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l List Archives: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.