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I have only read some of the postings on this topic, but I always read
L-Rod's postings because they are well-written and well thought out. They
usually stimulate my thinking. Here are some additional and
overlapping thoughts.<br><br>
--- Most of the PCT is not wilderness. Some of it is very far from that.
Most of the caches that I have seen have not been in designated
wilderness areas. Wishing an area was more wilderness-like should not be
a reason for eliminating caches. There should be none in designated
wilderness areas.<br><br>
--- Using caches for trash disposal is just as reprehensible as dumping
trash trailside where there is no cache. However, it is not a good reason
for deleting caches any more than it is a good reason for deleting
roads.<br><br>
--- My personal use of caches has depended strongly on season, weather
and the accuracy of my own advance estimates of water needs. Their
advertised presence does bring piece-of-mind and has made hiking more
pleasant when I have availed myself of their benefits. I try not to use
more than necessary. They are a big help to lots of people, particularly
those who walk lower mileage days than most of those on this list. In my
opinion they are extremely helpful, particularly in some areas. They are
desirable but not but not a necessity. Of course, many cross-country
hikers would say the same about trails.<br><br>
--- Locating caches off-trail with directional signs on the trail is not
a solution to anything. It only determines who (walkers on which trail)
gets to walk past and observe the cache, unless it is not on any trail
and then it is really changing the nature of an undisturbed area, not
just the trail. Location should be for the convenience of the users and
the maintainers.<br><br>
--- The esthetic pleasure or displeasure associated with a cache of
bottles on the ground tied with a string and a cache with wooden case
with neatly arranged bottles on and behind it and a cache with a sign-in
register and marked by a paper skeleton hanging from a tree is in the eye
of the beholder. One is not any esthetically better or worse than
the other.<br><br>
Thanks to all the cache maintainers, and to those who use them
neatly.<br>
HAPPY NEW YEAR!<br>
HYOH<br><br>
Pieces<br><br>
<br><br>
<br><br>
At 10:57 AM 12/31/07, Donna \"L-Rod\" Saufley wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">As always, great thoughts.
I like the idea of the caches being away from the trail, out of
sight. It has the secondary benefit of keeping the cache itself
safe from vandals and those who are not the intended recipients of the
water. By my own actions, I have proven that I want to help (some
could rightfully say enable) hikers along their journey. I
understand the kindness and love, not to mention physical toil, that goes
into placing and maintaining a cache. I am on the side of trail
angels, and cannot blame anyone for wanting to help the hikers. But
there is another voice within me that plays devil's advocate, and is
voicing what I've heard directly from hikers.<br>
<br>
I have trouble with the idea of leaving anything in a wilderness area, on
a trail that is reputed to be a wilderness trail. The trash and
debris that has been getting left behind in recent years not only blows
away, it is temptation for wildlife and potentially dangerous to
them. Isn't leaving anything at all in a wilderness area against
the law? How are we (collective hiker community) able to
justify defying those laws? Because we're special, and it made our
hike easier? Because what we're doing is good for our guys,
so let's alter the environment to suit ourselves? I have a lot of
trouble with this morally and ethically. It seems to me that the
practice of leaving caches does not align with Leave No Trace
principles.<br><br>
According to the most experienced PCT thru-hikers (categorized as those
who've hiked it multiple times over a period of years) there IS water to
be had along the trail. It takes effort to get to, sometimes as far
as a mile off trail. But it's there, and the trail can be hiked
without use of any caches, even in drought years. Of course,
there are many people who either do not want to carry more water, lack
the skills or patience to find these water sources, or simply would not
want to have this type of challenge added to an already challenging
hike. The reality is that caches are in fact making the trail
possible for some who would otherwise not be out there for whatever the
reason. <br><br>
I remember not too long ago the discussion regarding the graffiti on
signage up north -- specifically the helpful directional
signs. Yes, the graffiti was helpful and made the hike
easier. Yes, it was great not to have to stop and take out the
map. But the fact is it is graffiti defacing the signage and
against the law, and therefore it is quite technically wrongdoing.
How does leaving caches differ? <br><br>
I fear that we look at the kindness and intent, as well as the fact that
it may prove opportune or convenient, and forget to consider the impacts
to the world in which we are all stewards. We justify -- and even
applaud it -- it because it suits us, without regard to the law or
consequences. It's easy to do when you don't stick around to
see the consequences. <br><br>
L-Rod<br><br>
<br>
<dl>
<dd>-----Original Message----- <br>
<dd>From: jeff.singewald@comcast.net <br>
<dd>Sent: Dec 30, 2007 7:49 PM <br>
<dd>To: Postholer , pct-l@backcountry.net <br>
<dd>Cc: AsABat@4Jeffrey.Net <br>
<dd>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Water caches <br><br>
<dd>It is obvious there is a wide range of positions re: water caches,
but I am curious about the history of these organized water caches.
So a question or two for the old time thru-hikers (Stryder, Monte Dodge
and others). When did these organized water caches begin to be
common place along the PCT? How in the world did you guys/gals make
it to Canada without these water caches? For those that hike
the trail before these water caches became common place, would you prefer
to have had the luxury of these caches?<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>I am not a fan of these caches, but one idea that was brought up
earlier has significant merit. Why not place the water caches
off-trail, maybe 1/4 - 1/2 mile off-trail, so that if you need an
emergency cache, you can go off-trail to reach it, without too much
difficulty. This idea would seem to please those that are
opposed to on-trail caches as well as those that feel a strong desire to
provide emergency assistence to thru-hikers.<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>This is not all that much different than support provided at Hiker
Heaven or the Andersons or even the Manns. You would need to detour
off-trail to take advantage of this trail-angel support, rather than
placing the assistence right atop the trail like so many of these
caches.<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>Elevator<br>
<dl>
<dd>-------------- Original message -------------- <br>
<dd>From: "Postholer" <public@postholer.com> <br><br>
<dd>> Water caches; a quote directly from the pen of the Mann's: <br>
<dd>> <br>
<dd>> "I knew which caches were fairly reliable, and where the
alternate off-trail <br>
<dd>> water sources were, if a cache was empty." <br>
<dd>> <br>
<dd>> By this description the on-trail cache has become the source.
Going <br>
<dd>> off-trail is 'the alternate' to the cache! <br>
<dd>> <br>
<dd>> Are the cache maintainers 'getting it' yet? If you really care
about helping <br>
<dd>> hikers, fix it. You're a small group and you probably
communicate. You <br>
<dd>> already know what needs to be done. Change this before you
can't. <br>
<dd>> <br>
<dd>> The Mann's complete post: <br>
<dd>>
<a href="http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/2007-December/012135.html" eudora="autourl">
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/2007-December/012135.html</a>
<br>
<dd>> <br>
<dd>> -postholer <br>
<dd>> --------------------------------- --- > Trails :
<a href="http://postholer.com/" eudora="autourl">http://Postholer.Com</a>
<br>
<dd>> Journals :
<a href="http://postholer.com/journal" eudora="autourl">
http://Postholer.Com/journal</a> <br>
<dd>> Maps :
<a href="http://postholer.com/gmap" eudora="autourl">
http://Postholer.Com/gmap</a> <br>
<dd>> <br>
<dd>> _______________________________________________ <br>
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