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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I’ve never been so personally torn
and divided on a issue. It’s not in my heart to deprive a hiker of
something that helps them. Yet I can’t help but hear and share the
concerns. The benefit/consequence divide is so valid on either side of
the discussion. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>L-Rod<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
pct-l-bounces@backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces@backcountry.net] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Patrick Beggan<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January 02, 2008
10:47 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> pct-l@backcountry.net<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [pct-l] Water Caches</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>A fair point, I suppose. I know all about regulation and how to draw
attention to yourself invites it -- It's one of the first unwritten rules in
the Army. However, well, I'll go ahead and be honest -- I would like to carry
less water when I thru-hike in 08. :P<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>But in all seriousness I guess it is a delicate issue. However, most
people sure do like the caches. I've been in arid environments before and I'll
tell you availability of water has a very direct impact on attitude and morale.
I think the benefit of these caches goes beyond simple prevention of
dehydration and makes the trail actually more enjoyable.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Even with the increased risk of regulation that leaving water caches
invites, I still say leave the situation as it is. This is something I would risk
regulation for. What's the worst they can do, make water caches against the
rules? That's what many people are suggesting in this discussion anyway. :)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Jan 2, 2008, at 1:38 PM, Donna Saufley wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceType"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceName"><u1:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place">
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>You wrote the truth: people will do
what they will, and it will sort itself out eventually. Unfortunately, it
may sort itself out in some form of increased regulatory intervention. It
seems to be the practice of the USFS to shut down entirely that which they
cannot manage effectively. My observation down here in So Cal is that
they are not remotely sympathetic or supportive of the needs of thru-hikers.
They shut down miles of trail for a two foot stream crossing where the
Yellow Legged Frog lives. They’ve shut down most of the well water
sources that were once available. When sobo hikers have asked to go
through the forest when they shut down during fire season (with no active
fires): even though the hikers have walked over 2,100 miles, and have
less than 500 to go, the answer is a resounding “No.”
Do we as a community want to allow these guys to make decisions for
us when we can raise consciousness and change our behavior before that
happens? If we don’t change our behavior, we will certainly get
what we deserve, IMHO.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><u1:p> </u1:p></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>L-Rod<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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</span></font></div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:black'> <a href="mailto:pct-l-bounces@backcountry.net">pct-l-bounces@backcountry.net</a> [<a
href="mailto:pct-l-bounces@backcountry.net">mailto:pct-l-bounces@backcountry.net</a>] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Patrick Beggan<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, January 01,
2008 11:25 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:pct-l@backcountry.net">pct-l@backcountry.net</a><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [pct-l] Water
Caches</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<u1:p></u1:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
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<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>People like to make a big deal about these
caches, as I can see from the last fifty water cache messages on here. :P But
really, who is it hurting? If those empties are tied together then I don't see
a problem... and if they aren't tied together, the problem isn't the water
cache itself, it's the lack of organization.<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>If you don't like using water caches
because it takes some perceived (and I assure you, it's a value of perception)
purity from your hike, don't use them. If you think people are starting to
count on them as a sure-thing, well, they're going to learn that's not the case
eventually. On the other hand, plenty of people are using these to make what
would be an uncomfortable stretch into a comfortable stretch, starting with
enough water to get across (but thirsty) without a cache and then using the
cache as a luxury when they do come across it. Why ruin it for these people,
doing it right, just because you're concerned about purity or less scrupulous
hikers?<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I say keep them how they are until someone
in the park service says otherwise. People will do what they will do and this
situation will sort itself out.<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>On Jan 1, 2008, at 2:14 PM, <a
href="mailto:Slyatpct@aol.com">Slyatpct@aol.com</a> wrote:<u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' type=cite>
<div bottommargin=7 leftmargin=7 topmargin=7 rightmargin=7 id="role_body">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>In a message dated 12/28/2007 9:38:14 PM
Eastern Standard Time, <a href="mailto:hikin_steve@yahoo.com">hikin_steve@yahoo.com</a> writes:<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><a
href="http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?jtype=photo&entry_id=641&photo_id=681"
title="http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?jtype=photo&entry_id=641&photo_id=681">http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?jtype=photo&entry_id=641&photo_id=681</a><u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>This is a photo from Len Roughgarden
(2007 thru-hiker) at about mile 87, somewhere between <st1:placename u2:st="on"><st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Warner</st1:placename></st1:PlaceName> <st1:placename u2:st="on"><st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Springs</st1:placename></st1:PlaceName> and <st1:place u2:st="on"><st1:placetype u2:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Mt.</st1:placetype></st1:PlaceType> <st1:placename u2:st="on"><st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Laguna</st1:placename></st1:place></st1:PlaceName></st1:place>,
showing all the empty water bottles. What an mess!<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>-----------------------------------<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Yeah but not as messy as a cattle
fouled source. At least this can be cleaned up and the empties appeared
to be tied together so they don't fly off..<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> <u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Sly<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=2
color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>See AOL's <a
href="http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004"
target="_blank"
title="http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004">top
rated recipes</a> and <a
href="http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aoltop00030000000003"
target="_blank"
title="http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aoltop00030000000003">easy
ways to stay in shape</a> for winter.</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:black'><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>
Pct-l mailing list<br>
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To unsubscribe or change list options (digest, etc):<br>
<a href="http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l">http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l</a><u1:p></u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><u1:p> </u1:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>No virus found in this incoming message.<br>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<br>
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1206 - Release Date: 1/1/2008
12:09 PM</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=2 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'>No virus found in this outgoing message.<br>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<br>
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008
11:29 AM</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype></u1:smarttagtype>
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</html>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>No virus found in this incoming message.<BR>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM<BR>
</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2 FACE="Arial"> </FONT> </P><BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>No virus found in this outgoing message.<BR>
Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM<BR>
</FONT> </P>