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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Well put. We should start a support group
for co-dependent enablers like us. Oh, wait . . . we have one and this is it! <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>L-Rod<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Andrea Dinsmore
[mailto:<st1:PersonName w:st="on">zaqueltooocool@gmail.com</st1:PersonName>] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January 02, 2008
11:02 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Donna Saufley<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> David Hough on pct-l;
pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [pct-l] water caches
and bear feedings and related musings</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Kinda like Welfare for hikers and bears ???<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>PCT MOM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Jan 2, 2008 10:01 AM, Donna Saufley <<a
href="mailto:dsaufley@sprynet.com">dsaufley@sprynet.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Great post -- very interesting thoughts.<br>
<br>
I would answer your question that yes, feeding the bears and placing caches <br>
are similar in that they create dependent behavior. In all fairness, so does<br>
providing a hiker hostel. However, the similarities are limited. Feeding<br>
bears and leaving caches both defy LNT principles, and are both impacting <br>
our environment. It's the ultimate consequences for each action that<br>
differ.<br>
<br>
The bear becomes habituated to people which often results in emboldened or<br>
aggressive behavior, putting people at risk and ultimately leading to the <br>
killing of the bear.<br>
<br>
The consequence of water caches has led to lower attrition rates on<br>
thru-hike attempts, thus higher numbers of hikers on trail (exceeding the<br>
trail's capacity), hiker-generated trash and debris permeating the <br>
environment in places, and a pile of stuff that some view as a welcome and<br>
appreciated resource, and others see as a blight on the environment that<br>
doesn't belong.<br>
<br>
L-Rod<br>
<br>
-----Original Message----- <br>
From: <a href="mailto:pct-l-bounces@backcountry.net">pct-l-bounces@backcountry.net</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:pct-l-bounces@backcountry.net">pct-l-bounces@backcountry.net</a>]<br>
On Behalf Of David Hough on pct-l<br>
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 7:59 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net">pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net</a><br>
Subject: [pct-l] water caches and bear feedings and related musings<br>
<br>
Why not combine two topics... a recent post clarified <br>
for me the question: what's the difference between<br>
feeding the bears and providing water caches for<br>
hikers?<br>
<br>
Don't both lead to dependent behavior?<br>
<br>
I don't have a definite opinion on this. As a <br>
section<br>
hiker I have both used and resupplied water caches,<br>
perhaps in roughly equal amounts (although not in the<br>
same place in the same year). Never out of<br>
necessity<br>
as much as out of convenience.<br>
<br>
There are all kinds of compromises made for<br>
convenience.<br>
A physical trail, for one, instead of a cross-country<br>
route or a road. Routing the trail by water sources<br>
instead of closer to the real crest.<br>
Drivers stopping to offer hikers<br>
a lift to and from town to resupply.<br>
<br>
Finishing the trail<br>
in one season would certainly be a more exclusive<br>
accomplishment if none of that happened, but is that<br>
really the goal? After all the successful through <br>
hikers<br>
are a negligible drop in the statistical bucket<br>
of all national scenic trail users. The political<br>
clout that made the national scenic trail system<br>
happen and keeps it alive is from a vastly larger <br>
population of users and supporters.<br>
<br>
<br>
Of course, anybody is free to decline to use caches<br>
and decline to hitch to town and decline to follow<br>
the constructed trail, especially away from the crest.<br>
Almost all the caches are close to roads for very good <br>
reasons as anybody who carries much water realizes.<br>
Thus they are seldom found in statutory wilderness.<br>
A bunch of bottles rattling in the wind doesn't bother<br>
me if they are tied together and near a road. <br>
<br>
What I find far more disturbing in populated areas<br>
is too many trails and roads and too few signs that<br>
survive vandalism of various sorts.<br>
That's a far greater inconvenience.<br>
<br>
But there are even those who feel that trail signs <br>
do not belong in wilderness. My understanding<br>
(SoCal hikers of that era might correct me) is that<br>
there were<br>
no backcountry trail signs in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">San
Jacinto</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">STATE</st1:PlaceType></st1:place><br>
wilderness during the 1970's. But eventually <br>
somebody decided the SAR activity did more harm than<br>
the signs, especially since the tramway enabled<br>
anybody to get high enough to get lost or have a heart<br>
attack.<br>
<br>
My conclusion is that although Federal and State law <br>
partially define what wilderness is, the definition is<br>
much more in the mind and attitude of the wilderness<br>
user.<br>
<br>
The Feds say no motorized vehicles in wilderness.<br>
They don't say that you have to go barefoot or <br>
make footwear from native materials using native<br>
tools.<br>
Nor do they say you can't, although there are<br>
restrictions on gathering native tools and materials<br>
in National Parks.<br>
<br>
(I recall signs - possibly in <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Colorado</st1:place></st1:State>
- <br>
encouraging hikers to avoid lug soles to reduce<br>
trail impact and to walk in wet ruts rather than<br>
widen trails by walking on the sides of the ruts.<br>
So far these are just suggestions. But look how<br>
suggestion has evolved into statute at Mt Whitney, <br>
creating lots of extra incentives to become fit<br>
enough to do Whitney as a dayhike. Good thing or bad?)<br>
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