<div>What did the Thru hikers do before there were water caches and trail angels ??</div>
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<div>PCT MOM<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jan 2, 2008 10:58 AM, Donna Saufley <<a href="mailto:dsaufley@sprynet.com">dsaufley@sprynet.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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<p><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I've never been so personally torn and divided on a issue. It's not in my heart to deprive a hiker of something that helps them. Yet I can't help but hear and share the concerns. The benefit/consequence divide is so valid on either side of the discussion.
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<p><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> <a href="mailto:pct-l-bounces@backcountry.net" target="_blank">
pct-l-bounces@backcountry.net</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:pct-l-bounces@backcountry.net" target="_blank">pct-l-bounces@backcountry.net</a>] <b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Patrick Beggan<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">
Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January 02, 2008 10:47 AM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:pct-l@backcountry.net" target="_blank">pct-l@backcountry.net</a><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">
Subject:</span></b> Re: [pct-l] Water Caches</span></font></p></div>
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<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">A fair point, I suppose. I know all about regulation and how to draw attention to yourself invites it -- It's one of the first unwritten rules in the Army. However, well, I'll go ahead and be honest -- I would like to carry less water when I thru-hike in 08. :P
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<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">But in all seriousness I guess it is a delicate issue. However, most people sure do like the caches. I've been in arid environments before and I'll tell you availability of water has a very direct impact on attitude and morale. I think the benefit of these caches goes beyond simple prevention of dehydration and makes the trail actually more enjoyable.
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<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Even with the increased risk of regulation that leaving water caches invites, I still say leave the situation as it is. This is something I would risk regulation for. What's the worst they can do, make water caches against the rules? That's what many people are suggesting in this discussion anyway. :)
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<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Jan 2, 2008, at 1:38 PM, Donna Saufley wrote:</span></font></p></div>
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<p><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You wrote the truth: people will do what they will, and it will sort itself out eventually. Unfortunately, it may sort itself out in some form of increased regulatory intervention. It seems to be the practice of the USFS to shut down entirely that which they cannot manage effectively. My observation down here in So Cal is that they are not remotely sympathetic or supportive of the needs of thru-hikers. They shut down miles of trail for a two foot stream crossing where the Yellow Legged Frog lives. They've shut down most of the well water sources that were once available. When sobo hikers have asked to go through the forest when they shut down during fire season (with no active fires): even though the hikers have walked over 2,100 miles, and have less than 500 to go, the answer is a resounding "No." Do we as a community want to allow these guys to make decisions for us when we can raise consciousness and change our behavior before that happens? If we don't change our behavior, we will certainly get what we deserve, IMHO.
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<p><font face="Arial" color="navy" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">L-Rod</span></font><font color="black"><span style="COLOR: black"></span></font></p></div>
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<p><b><font face="Tahoma" color="black" size="2"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" color="black" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<a href="mailto:pct-l-bounces@backcountry.net" target="_blank">pct-l-bounces@backcountry.net</a> [<a href="mailto:pct-l-bounces@backcountry.net" target="_blank">mailto:pct-l-bounces@backcountry.net</a>] <b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">
On Behalf Of </span></b>Patrick Beggan<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, January 01, 2008 11:25 AM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:pct-l@backcountry.net" target="_blank">
pct-l@backcountry.net</a><br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [pct-l] Water Caches</span></font><font color="black"><span style="COLOR: black"></span></font></p></div></div>
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<p><font face="Times New Roman" color="black" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">People like to make a big deal about these caches, as I can see from the last fifty water cache messages on here. :P But really, who is it hurting? If those empties are tied together then I don't see a problem... and if they aren't tied together, the problem isn't the water cache itself, it's the lack of organization.
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<p><font face="Times New Roman" color="black" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">If you don't like using water caches because it takes some perceived (and I assure you, it's a value of perception) purity from your hike, don't use them. If you think people are starting to count on them as a sure-thing, well, they're going to learn that's not the case eventually. On the other hand, plenty of people are using these to make what would be an uncomfortable stretch into a comfortable stretch, starting with enough water to get across (but thirsty) without a cache and then using the cache as a luxury when they do come across it. Why ruin it for these people, doing it right, just because you're concerned about purity or less scrupulous hikers?
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<p><font face="Times New Roman" color="black" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">I say keep them how they are until someone in the park service says otherwise. People will do what they will do and this situation will sort itself out.
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<p><font face="Times New Roman" color="black" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">On Jan 1, 2008, at 2:14 PM, <a href="mailto:Slyatpct@aol.com" target="_blank">Slyatpct@aol.com</a> wrote:</span></font></p>
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<p><font face="Arial" color="black" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">In a message dated 12/28/2007 9:38:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, <a href="mailto:hikin_steve@yahoo.com" target="_blank">
hikin_steve@yahoo.com</a> writes:</span></font><font color="black"><span style="COLOR: black"></span></font></p></div></div>
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<p><font face="Arial" color="black" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><a title="http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?jtype=photo&entry_id=641&photo_id=681" href="http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?jtype=photo&entry_id=641&photo_id=681" target="_blank">
http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?jtype=photo&entry_id=641&photo_id=681</a></span></font><font color="black"><span style="COLOR: black"></span></font></p></div></div>
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<p><font face="Arial" color="black" size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This is a photo from Len Roughgarden (2007 thru-hiker) at about mile 87, somewhere between Warner Springs and Mt. Laguna, showing all the empty water bottles. What an mess!
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<p><font face="Arial" color="black" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Yeah but not as messy as a cattle fouled source. At least this can be cleaned up and the empties appeared to be tied together so they don't fly off..
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<p><font face="Arial" color="black" size="3"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sly</span></font><font color="black"><span style="COLOR: black"></span></font></p></div></div>
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