Ditto! Great line SE! Reminds me of the time I had to traverse a huge blow-down in the Smoky Mtns......I planted my umbrella firmly on the far side of it, and just as I stradled the tree and put all my weight on the umbrella to hoist myself over, the umbrella snapped in two, throwing me face down in the mud, pack and all. I laid there rolling around in the mud, laughing out loud, thinking, "You crazy, middle-aged lady.....what the hell are you doing out here???? Then I got up and kept on walking to Maine.............great fun to be had out there.....even in the hard times!!!<br><br>Wheeew<br><br><b><i>Donna Saufley <dsaufley@sprynet.com></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1250"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"> <o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} p {mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";}
span.EmailStyle18 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </o:SmartTagType></o:SmartTagType><div class="Section1"> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Steel-Eye wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN">“. . . I realize what a sniveling, thumb-sucking,
whiner I’ve become.”<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN">-------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN">Hey, I resemble that remark! This is a line that will stay with me. Hope you don’t mind if I borrow it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN">I also think “Thumb-Sucking Whiner” would be an excellent trail name. <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;" lang="EN"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">L-Rod<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <hr tabindex="-1" align="center"
size="2" width="100%"> </span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"> pct-l-bounces@backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces@backcountry.net] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Steel-Eye<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, February 15, 2008 6:47 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> G. Lowe aka Wheeew; PCT<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [pct-l] clothing question</span></font><o:p></o:p></div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Good morning,
Wheeew,<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" lang="EN">It’s hard to guess what someone else may need for insulation. As L-Rod mentioned, tolerance to cold is a personal thing, varying considerably among individuals. Reasons can be physical, situational, and mental. I think the primary physical attribute in favor of staying warm is size: A large person may not only have a layer of subcutaneous fat for insulation, but they would also have a higher percentage of body mass for their skin surface area. That configuration is not vary prevalent among long distance hikers. I’ve been told I may have a an unusually high percentage of residual brown fat, i.e. brown adipose tissue (BAT), to help keep me warm
but, since physiology isn’t my field, I really don’t know mitochondria from a hole-in-the-ground.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div style="background: rgb(248, 252, 255) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" lang="EN">Situational differences require a bit of experience. For most people, garment selection is based upon walk-around judgment: We put on a coat, go outside for a while, then say if it is, or isn’t, enough. This neglects the effect of heat production from activity. One extreme example is an ice fisherman who sits in the cold all day. The general rule for that situation is, estimate what insulation is necessary, then double it. On the other extreme, if I started hiking with “average” insulation it would be too much and I would be removing layers within
10 minutes. I’m generally warm from hiking all day, and I crawl into the bag soon after stopping and before I cool off. The only real use for something warm is early in the morning while I pack my stuff and for the first 10 minutes on the trail. I object to carrying an extra pound …. or two, or three …. just to be a bit more comfortable during that brief period. For times when it’s cold and I’m not active, my sleeping bag is my fall-back protection. I mentioned that situation in my TrailJournal entry for 6 Jun 07. It was cold, there was snow on the ground, and I had wet shoes and socks from fording the previous day, so when I stopped for a while to wait for another hiker I wrapped my bag around my feet and legs. That was no big deal; it worked fine, and a heavier coat wouldn’t have helped much.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"
lang="EN">The mental aspect is simple: I just don’t let myself object to being cold for a while. Whenever I start worry about being cold I re-read my copy of Jack <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">London</st1:place></st1:City>’s short story, To Build A Fire, and I realize what a sniveling, thumb-sucking, whiner I’ve become.</span><o:p></o:p></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" lang="EN">Steel-Eye</span><o:p></o:p></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;" lang="EN">^^^^^^^^^^ Serious hikers gather
at: <a href="http://www.aldhawest.org/"><font color="purple"><span style="color: purple;">http://www.aldhawest.org/</span></font></a> ^^^^^^^^^^<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color black; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;"> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;">----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div style=""> <div class="MsoNormal" style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"><b><font
face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"> <a href="mailto:gailpl2003@yahoo.com" title="gailpl2003@yahoo.com">G. Lowe aka Wheeew</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold;">To:</span></font></b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"> <a href="mailto:chelin@teleport.com" title="chelin@teleport.com">Steel-Eye</a> ; <a href="mailto:pct-l@backcountry.net" title="pct-l@backcountry.net">PCT</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></font></b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Arial;"> Monday, January 14, 2008 3:36 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></font></b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"> Re: [pct-l] clothing question<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">You bring up good points Steel-Eye. I was concerned about carrying "all things down" on my hike. I was going to post a question regarding this same issue. Here it is: If I have serious Capilene long johns, a long sleeve shirt, DriClime wind shirt and rain gear, do I really need a down jacket too??? Or any other jacket for that
matter???<br> <br> Wheeew<br> <br> <b><i><span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;">Steel-Eye <<a href="mailto:chelin@teleport.com">chelin@teleport.com</a>></span></i></b> wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> <div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Good morning, Moondog,<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I haven’t found the PCT to be particularly cold in the hiking season. Frost in the morning and occasional light snowfall aren’t uncommon, but that’s nothing for an active hiker. All I use is: 1) a poly tee shirt, 2) a 200-weight, pull-over fleece shirt/jacket, and 3) a thin, hooded windshirt. The jacket is an off-brand that I
bought on sale for about $10. and it weighs 10.5 oz. The GoLite Ether windshirt weighs 3.0 oz. Wearing both, I’m comfortable until I warm up on the trail. Soon, first the wind shirt comes off, then later the fleece. During a break the windshirt goes back on. Examples of that can be seen at: <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><a href="http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye">http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye</a> on the entries for 5 & 6 June, except in that on the 6th the windshirt was a Marmot rather than the GoLite. I couldn’t do that with a Flight Jacket. <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New
Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I’d love to have a Flight Jacket, and several times I’ve come close to buying one since it weighs about the same as my fleece alone, but for me it would be too warm and I couldn’t get the same ventilation when layering. Besides, the Flight Jacket costs over $210. more than the cheap-o fleece.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I have three down jackets by other manufacturers, but in the more chronically wet areas …. like where I live in the Northwest …. they are usually too warm and they seem to get sopped around the shoulders under rain gear. The fleece performs much better for me under those circumstances.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div>
<div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I have several vests, both fleece and down, but I don’t often take them on the trail. My problem: With advanced years I notice the cold on my arms more than I used to, so I like long sleeves.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Steel-Eye<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">^^^^^^^^^^ Serious hikers gather at: </span></font><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"><a href="http://www.aldhawest.org/"><font color="purple" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Times New Roman"; color: purple;">http://www.aldhawest.org/</span></font></a></span></font> ^^^^^^^^^^<o:p></o:p></div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:
12pt;">----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> </div> <blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color black; border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;"> <div style="-moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"> <div class="MsoNormal" style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"><b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"> <a href="mailto:davidalexanderstewart@gmail.com"
title="davidalexanderstewart@gmail.com">David Stewart</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div style="font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"> <div class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold;">To:</span></font></b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"> <a href="mailto:pct-l@backcountry.net" title="pct-l@backcountry.net">pct-l@backcountry.net</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div style="font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"> <div class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></font></b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"> Sunday, January 13, 2008 4:59 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div style="font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"> <div class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Arial"
size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></font></b><font face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial;"> [pct-l] clothing question<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I am having some trouble deciding about an insulating layer. Everyone raves about the WM Flight Jacket. I have no doubts that that sucker is nice and warm. But I am a warm sleeper and generally warm all the time. I hardly ever use a 2nd layer while hiking, unless it is cold and raining. <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div
class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I will have two baselyer shirts with me, Marmot Precip Jacket and a TNF Windstopper Vest. I am debating to go with the WM Flash vest, or the Flight vest. I could imagine the Flight Jacket being simply too warm, except perhaps in the Sierras (but there is some 2300 other miles of trails to carry the jacket...). <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Layer up? or is it really that cold?<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">my bag will be the WM Summerlite. <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">one last question to ponder: Is anyone slicker than Tom Brady? seriously.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">-moondog<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"> </span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">_______________________________________________<br> Pct-l mailing list<br> Pct-l@backcountry.net<br> To unsubscribe or change list options (digest, etc):<br> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </blockquote> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">_______________________________________________<br> Pct-l mailing list<br> Pct-l@backcountry.net<br> To unsubscribe or change list options (digest, etc):<br> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l<o:p></o:p></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br> <br> <br> -Wheeew-<br> www.trailjournals.com/wheeew/<br> ---->MexiCan----> 2008 <o:p></o:p></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"> <hr align="center" size="1" width="100%"> </span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Looking for last minute shopping deals? <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51734/*http:/tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping">Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></div> </blockquote> </div> <br> <div><font size="2">No virus found in this incoming message.<br> Checked by AVG Free Edition.<br> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1223 - Release Date: 1/13/2008 8:23 PM<br> </font> </div> <div><font face="Arial" size="2"> </font> </div><br> <div><font size="2">No virus found in this outgoing message.<br> Checked by AVG Free Edition.<br> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1223 - Release Date: 1/13/2008 8:23 PM<br> </font> </div> </blockquote><br><BR><BR>-Wheeew-<br>www.trailjournals.com/wheeew/<br>---->MexiCan---->
2008<p> 
<hr size=1>Looking for last minute shopping deals? <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51734/*http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping">
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.</a>