[Cdt-l] GPS and TOPO! ready files (based on Jonathan's Google, Earth file)

[Bob]

Jack replied that I had "lectured" him... "again."

I apologize to him and to all of you if my plea for CDT cairns appeared to
be a lecture. Not meant as such.   

I spoke up only when he identified himself as "the guy that mapped the PCT
for Backpacker Magazine" and I realized that he was the one who espoused
kicking down cairns that didn't make sense to him, without knowing their
purpose or history.  That wasn't a "lecture" in the middle of the trail
above Wrightwood, that was a flat-out argument between two gentleman who
were frustrated that the other totally rejected the other's reasoning.  I'm
retired and my lecturing days are over, especially on a forum among
respected equals like the CDT-L.  I certainly apologize if my comment
yesterday struck everyone as a lecture.  I meant it as imploring him to view
cairns on the CDT as potentially more important and beneficial than the ones
he thought so unnecessary on the better-defined PCT that he had to kick them
down.  Actually, I'm begging him, and everyone, not to arbitrarily destroy
CDT cairns or "ducks."  I recall places on the CDT where a cairn drew my
attention to a needed change of direction that I otherwise might have
missed. After one pass in Colorado, my wife and I fanned out and searched
for ANY sign of a trail. Way far to the left from where obvious trail had
ended abruptly, I stumbled onto the tiniest of cairns - a mere 8" stack of
small rocks in the grass - and that led to a gradually more apparent path.
It would be nice if that little routefinding assistance would still be there
for the next hiker who comes along. 

Someone posted, and I saved, the following admittedly "preachy" statement
during a discussion of cairn destruction on another backpacking forum, many
years ago: 

"It's fascinating how we judge the value of things merely in relation to our
own need.  Cairns were put where they are for a reason.  We may not
understand "why" at the moment or where they lead, but nature rarely places
one rock on top of another and there is a distinct purpose and aforethought
in their construction.  It can be fascinating to try to understand
historically why the cairns are there.  Discovering and following old trails
can be a joy unto itself and sometimes leads to efforts to persuade the
Forest Service to reopen trails long closed or abandoned.  It is the Forest
Service, after all, that has legal authority over most of our public
recreation lands and it requires a certain arrogance to assume that we know
best and that we should step in and destroy cairns or markers that someone
else has previously deemed important or necessary.  What may seem frivolous,
unnecessary, or marring of the landscape to one may indeed be incredibly
important to that someone who carefully placed the cairns in the first
place.  No one can expect you to know all there is about the situation
before you... and you shouldn't assume that you do either and just destroy
cairns, the purpose of which you might have, at present, no clue."  

Anyway, I again apologize if my original comments on cairns offended. OK,
I've made my plea about CDT cairns and I'm outta here...

Dr Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: cdt-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:cdt-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
On Behalf Of Bob
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 9:44 PM
To: 'Jack Haskel'; 'Brett'
Cc: 'CDT'
Subject: Re: [Cdt-l] GPS and TOPO! ready files (based on Jonathan's Google,
Earth file)

Jack, 

On the CDT, please don't kick down cairns the way you were so proud of doing
on the PCT.  There are many places where they are important on this
lesser-marked trail.  They sure helped me in a number of places on the CDT.
I know you've said that you feel GPS technology should be utilized by all
hikers, but please leave any CDT cairns standing, for those of us who like a
nice visual confirmation on the ground once in a while.  

Dr Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: cdt-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:cdt-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
On Behalf Of Jack Haskel
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 7:24 PM
To: Brett
Cc: CDT
Subject: Re: [Cdt-l] GPS and TOPO! ready files (based on Jonathan's Google,
Earth file)

"Frankly it'd be a lot easier to generate a reasonably accurate and
comprehensive "GIS" of the CDT by referring to existing resources (maps,
guidebook descriptions) and hand drawing a data set using Google Earth or
TOPO!"
 
Heck yeah it'd be easier! I'm pretty sure that actually hiking the CDT would
be kind of... hard.... :)

I'm the guy that mapped the PCT for Backpacker Magazine (backpacker.com/pct)
so I'm one of the few that's collected a detailed track log and way point
set for a long trail. Too bad that very few use the PCT data (and too bad
that it was post processed in a less than useful way). The CDT project by
the magazine is incomplete. They tried to have a bunch of teams of people
map it, and it was never finished. Maybe I'll do my thing for the CDT? I'm
not excited about the prospect and don't have the funds for the hundreds of
dollars worth of lithium batteries. I took a bread crumb every 0.03 of a
mile I think, and took a waypoint of a road, watersource, campsite,
viewpoint, etc on average every mile. 

    Cheers,
         Jack


On Jan 4, 2010, at 6:12 PM, Brett wrote:

> Order's

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