[pct-l] Pct-l Digest, Vol 27, Issue 73

[Dave and Cindy]

Hi Andrea,

We use a pocket rocket stove which requires an iso/butane canister.  Not 
sure if they are available anywhere around there but it would be nice if we 
could purchase one or two when we arrive.

Can't wait, thanks,
Zelda
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <pct-l-request at backcountry.net>
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 10:00 AM
Subject: Pct-l Digest, Vol 27, Issue 73


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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Lucky-5 Cache (CHUCK CHELIN)
>   2. Re: VVR2 / using the word 'shady' (Vermilion Valley Resort)
>   3. Supplies in the North Cascades (Andrea Dinsmore)
>   4. Re: Lucky-5 Cache (AsABat)
>   5. Re: Bivy (Robert W. Freed)
>   6. Re: VVR2 / using the word 'shady' (Junaid Dawud)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:07:40 -0800
> From: CHUCK CHELIN <steeleye at wildblue.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Lucky-5 Cache
> To: Pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <db9154d1003120907m3014ddafgc1a4362dd0690c7e at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Good morning, Oldtimers,
>
>
>
> Just for my own curiosity can anyone give me the coordinate location ? or
> close ? of the old, now defunct, ?Lucky-5? water cache?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Steel-Eye
>
> Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT ? 1965
>
> http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye
>
> http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09
>
>
> **
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 10:17:56 -0700
> From: Vermilion Valley Resort <pct-l at edisonlake.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] VVR2 / using the word 'shady'
> To: Kelly Sharkey <kellysharkey at gmail.com>
> Cc: PCT MailingList <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <E047157A-6F7F-41B5-A648-60B0331815CE at edisonlake.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I for one am done with it.  I think as Thomas stated, it's valuable 
> information, but frankly - I've spent too much time on it.
>
> Bill
>
> On Mar 12, 2010, at 9:35 AM, Kelly Sharkey wrote:
>
>> I for one hope that this will be the end of the VVR topic. I really enjoy
>> this forum, but I am disappointed how far people have taken this topic 
>> and
>> the topic of the people carrying the baby. People have made things 
>> personal,
>> and I just don't feel that is in the best interest of anyone involved.
>> Remember the golden rule "Treat others as you want to be treated."
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Junaid Dawud <jdawud at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ok. First off, my opinions were offered as just that, opinions. If you
>>> don't like my opinions or have some that run contrary to mine, that's
>>> great - I'm probably in the minority on this one. I'd like to think
>>> that the pct-l is a forum where reasonable minds may differ (though
>>> some of the silly wars I saw in 2006 and the current assault on the
>>> people hiking with a baby would suggest that this is not always so).
>>>
>>> As Ive already said, VVR was a mistake FOR ME. I say that primarily
>>> because I think mono hotsprings is a better place FOR ME. Why? --->
>>> hotsprings, free camping, a PO, a warm lake with fun cliff jumping.
>>>
>>> And again, as I've said, many liked vvr and I'm not trying to tell
>>> people that they should not go, indeed the pie alone could be worth
>>> the visit.
>>>
>>> I did in fact talk to the owner about the resupply merchandise on his
>>> shelves. He said what others have said, he opens the unclaimed boxes
>>> at the end of the season and sells the stuff. For some thats fine, I
>>> do think it's shady. To my knowledge there are no other places we send
>>> packages that do this.
>>>
>>> Some have urged me to offer a speedy and public apology so as to
>>> maintain the good will of the vvr folks to hikers and to avoid a
>>> lawsuit. Let me be clear, I will never offer such an apology. Ever. I
>>> stated my opinions and qualified them as such. I invited the VVR folks
>>> to offer their perspective, which they have. People with minds can
>>> read both sides and make their own decisions about what they want to do.
>>>
>>> To the folks at VVR, I'd suggest that the persistence of the 'rumor'
>>> has much to do with the fact that there's some truth to it: unclaimed
>>> boxes become merchandise. I had boxes I didn't claim at other resupply
>>> points, they were returned to me. You might consider rethinking your
>>> practice, contact other businesses that cater to hikers and see how
>>> they handle unclaimed boxes.
>>>
>>> Finally, get a grip people. It's a discussion forum, let's discuss
>>> without getting so worked up that spittle accumulates on our screens.
>>>
>>> "above all else remember this: to thine own self be true."
>>>
>>> Junaid
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-l mailing list
>>> Pct-l at backcountry.net
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>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
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>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:18:06 -0800
> From: Andrea Dinsmore <zaqueltooocool at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Supplies in the North Cascades
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <f2a521471003120918n78b8454t9dd315d0275e9b7d at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I would like to hear from hikers who plan on hiking on the PCT in the 
> North
> Cascades. What supplies not usually found in a very small town would you
> like to find a this trail angel stop ?? We usually try and keep some of 
> the
> odd "wants" for the crew coming through but usually end of missing 
> something
> important. Also, if there's something personal that we can have here
> (besides your better half) if you call from Snoqualmie Pass (3 days prior)
> we can make sure and have it here when you arrive.
>
> PCT MOM
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:23:56 -0800
> From: AsABat <asabat at 4jeffrey.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Lucky-5 Cache
> To: CHUCK CHELIN <steeleye at wildblue.net>
> Cc: Pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <cc4cf8ff1003120923q71aecc3ard2ee060cc730a33c at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> I don't have the coordinates, but it was approximately mile 58.
> Looking at the topo map, it was across Sunrise Highway at the (locked)
> road to Lucky 5 Ranch in Rattlesnake Valley. Some maps called that
> gated road Deer Park Road.
>
> Looking at Halfmile's map, it looks like the UTM is about
> 11S 3648182N 45500E (WGS84)
>
> AsABat
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 9:07 AM, CHUCK CHELIN <steeleye at wildblue.net> 
> wrote:
>> Good morning, Oldtimers,
>>
>>
>>
>> Just for my own curiosity can anyone give me the coordinate location ? or
>> close ? of the old, now defunct, ?Lucky-5? water cache?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Steel-Eye
>>
>> Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT ? 1965
>>
>> http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye
>>
>> http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09
>>
>>
>> **
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-l mailing list
>> Pct-l at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:55:21 -0800 (PST)
> From: "Robert W. Freed" <robert at engravingpros.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Bivy
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <855077.67029.qm at web81807.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Homemade out of silnylon. Half zipper. Condensation can be bad. My 
> sleeping bag
> ends up fully damp by morning, but not soaked. I put my sleeping pad 
> inside and I
> still get pools of moisture under the pad. I only use it when I have too. 
> But it gets used
> several times on every major hike.
> ?
> Sewing your own gear is a great way to spend the off season. I started as 
> a sewing
> neophyte, but now a lot of my gear is homemade and better than you can buy 
> off
> the shelf. And at a quarter the cost!
> ?
> Robert
>
> --- On Fri, 3/12/10, giniajim <jplynch at crosslink.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: giniajim <jplynch at crosslink.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Bivy
> To: robert at engravingpros.com, pct-l at backcountry.net
> Date: Friday, March 12, 2010, 8:50 AM
>
>
>
>
>
> What UL bivy have you got??? Mine is light, but not what I'd call 
> "ultralight".? thnx
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Robert W. Freed
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Sent: Friday, March 12, 2010 11:20 AM
> Subject: [pct-l] Bivy
>
> My ultra lite bivy has become one of my ten essentials. Something I put
> into the fanny pack for peak runs. Mostly I used a tarp for shelter but
> using the bivy as a backup takes out all of the worries of setting up in
> horizontal rain or mud or 50 mph winds. The bivy has many issues.
> Small, restrictive, condensation build up. But when the sh#t hits the fan
> I know I have a way to make it through the night. All else fails fill it 
> full
> of pine needles or leaves and dig in.
>
> Robert
> _______________________________________________
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2010 10:57:58 -0700
> From: Junaid Dawud <jdawud at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] VVR2 / using the word 'shady'
> To: Vermilion Valley Resort <pct-l at edisonlake.com>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <C9DE15D3-E6F1-40FA-BC50-D970BFBDC169 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> I've never sent anyone, you, Jim, anyone, an off list / private email.
> There is no duplicity here. I always say what I mean, regardless of
> who I'm speaking to. All of my posts have been to the pct-l.
>
> I've also been completely consistent about stating and restating that
> these are simply my opinions based on my experiences. I'm not a
> reporter, just one of many hikers.
>
> I have perhaps been unclear about the unclaimed boxes being sold
> seeming shady vs the owner seeming shady. I can clear that up now. My
> interactions with him gave me a shady impression, the practice of
> reselling unclaimed packages also seems shady. Again, simply my opinion.
>
> My 'mistake' wasn't paying $10 for my package, or even going to vvr.
> It was NOT having researched and found out about mono hotsprings,
> which I loved. I'm not even 'anti-vvr', many love it and it provides
> hiker services, so good on em. I just like mono and wish I had known
> about it prior to arriving. It would've saved me money and taken less
> time than going to both.
>
> Sorry for starting such a high emotions thread, I just like mono
> hotsprings.
>
>
> Junaid
>
> On Mar 12, 2010, at 10:01 AM, Vermilion Valley Resort 
> <pct-l at edisonlake.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Junaid,
>>
>> A lot of this is stemming from the fact that you can't get your
>> accusations straight.
>>
>> By that I mean that on the list, you are talking about us taking
>> stuff out of the unclaimed resupply boxes and selling it - something
>> that is no secret - our website specifically states that we do this
>> from time to time for unclaimed boxes.  This is what I've been
>> defending against on the list.
>>
>> BUT.. in private, in emails between you and I, and you and Jim, you
>> accuse us of taking things out of the hiker barrels - something we
>> never do, and something that would be almost sacrilegious to us and
>> many others.
>>
>> So which is it?  Are you upset about the unclaimed boxes, or the
>> hiker barrels?  The persisting rumor is that we take out of the
>> hiker barrels... which we NEVER do.  We used to clean the barrels of
>> spoiled stuff; we don't even do that anymore - we let the hikers
>> police the barrel themselves.
>>
>> You state here that you stated only your opinion and qualified it as
>> such.  In your email to Jim you state that you never called him
>> shady, but referred to the practice as shady (which you've done here
>> again).
>>
>> First - in your original posting to this very list with the subject
>> line of "Mistakes", you specifically say "Then, sending a package to
>> VVR, I think the owner was shady."  To me, that's calling the owner
>> shady without anything to back it up.  Not the practice - the owner.
>>
>> Secondly, the term "shady" as you use it, is defined on
>> dictionary.com as:
>>
>> "of dubious character; rather disreputable: shady dealings."
>>
>> Which effectively brings the character of Jim and his staff into
>> question.  How can this policy be "shady", when it's done out in the
>> open, and is clearly identified on the resupply page of the
>> website?  And how can anyone implementing this policy be considered
>> shady when you know of it ahead of time?  If you look at our
>> resupply page to get the resupply address, the policy is clearly
>> discussed there - http://www.edisonlake.com/hikers/resupply.  And
>> quite frankly, if the original owner doesn't care about his/her box
>> and lets it go unclaimed, why do you care what we do with it?
>>
>> Finally... if this policy is "shady" to you - what would you suggest
>> we do to recoup the costs of picking up the resupply box 1 hour away
>> at Rancheria Garage, driving it down the road to VVR, logging it in,
>> and storing it?  If we can't recoup that cost, storing resupply
>> boxes might end up being a losing proposition for us - which would
>> force us to stop offering the service.  We certainly don't want to
>> do that... it's an important service that we provide.  So... do you
>> have an alternative solution?  If somebody doesn't pick up their
>> resupply, and doesn't contact us - what should we do about it?  Ship
>> it back?!?  At our cost?!?  Tell me who on the trail does that to an
>> unclaimed box.  And what business could survive doing that on a
>> consistent basis?
>>
>> I appreciate that you say these are just your opinions.  Fine - then
>> present them as such, and please don't make unfounded accusations.
>> If you must make accusations... make them consistently and offer
>> some sort of proof.  I'm tired of addressing one accusation
>> publicly, and another privately.
>>
>> Jim has already contacted you and made the offer for you to visit
>> over a beer, rather than discuss this any further over a keyboard.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> On Mar 12, 2010, at 9:06 AM, Junaid Dawud wrote:
>>
>>> Ok. First off, my opinions were offered as just that, opinions. If
>>> you
>>> don't like my opinions or have some that run contrary to mine, that's
>>> great - I'm probably in the minority on this one. I'd like to think
>>> that the pct-l is a forum where reasonable minds may differ (though
>>> some of the silly wars I saw in 2006 and the current assault on the
>>> people hiking with a baby would suggest that this is not always so).
>>>
>>> As Ive already said, VVR was a mistake FOR ME. I say that primarily
>>> because I think mono hotsprings is a better place FOR ME. Why? --->
>>> hotsprings, free camping, a PO, a warm lake with fun cliff jumping.
>>>
>>> And again, as I've said, many liked vvr and I'm not trying to tell
>>> people that they should not go, indeed the pie alone could be worth
>>> the visit.
>>>
>>> I did in fact talk to the owner about the resupply merchandise on his
>>> shelves. He said what others have said, he opens the unclaimed boxes
>>> at the end of the season and sells the stuff. For some thats fine, I
>>> do think it's shady. To my knowledge there are no other places we
>>> send
>>> packages that do this.
>>>
>>> Some have urged me to offer a speedy and public apology so as to
>>> maintain the good will of the vvr folks to hikers and to avoid a
>>> lawsuit. Let me be clear, I will never offer such an apology. Ever. I
>>> stated my opinions and qualified them as such. I invited the VVR
>>> folks
>>> to offer their perspective, which they have. People with minds can
>>> read both sides and make their own decisions about what they want
>>> to do.
>>>
>>> To the folks at VVR, I'd suggest that the persistence of the 'rumor'
>>> has much to do with the fact that there's some truth to it: unclaimed
>>> boxes become merchandise. I had boxes I didn't claim at other
>>> resupply
>>> points, they were returned to me. You might consider rethinking your
>>> practice, contact other businesses that cater to hikers and see how
>>> they handle unclaimed boxes.
>>>
>>> Finally, get a grip people. It's a discussion forum, let's discuss
>>> without getting so worked up that spittle accumulates on our screens.
>>>
>>> "above all else remember this: to thine own self be true."
>>>
>>> Junaid
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-l mailing list
>>> Pct-l at backcountry.net
>>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>>
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
> End of Pct-l Digest, Vol 27, Issue 73
> *************************************