[pct-l] Tents vrs Tarps - Numbers do not make sense

Thu Feb 3 21:38:12 CST 2011

Uhhhh, good point! My Bad! Outside of the PCT...or any Long Distance hike, go 
heavy. Take steaks, potatoes, 1" sleeping pad and some good whiskey. :-) ...and 
a good book! N-Joy!! 

________________________________
From: John Abela <pacificcresttrail2011 at gmail.com>
To: 'Sourdough' Foster <athruhiker2006 at yahoo.com>
Cc: PCT L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Thu, February 3, 2011 10:22:14 PM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Tents vrs Tarps - Numbers do not make sense

Geeh, maybe some of us like to backpack outside of the PCT... the PCT is not the 
end-all of backpacking you know.

So, back to my question...

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:16 PM, 'Sourdough' Foster <athruhiker2006 at yahoo.com> 
wrote:

Hmmm, The most important thing to remember here it that successfully walking to 
Canada is 85% mental and only 5% gear. Now, what was the question again?? :-) 
HAIRNT!! 

>S'do
> 
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: John Abela <pacificcresttrail2011 at gmail.com>
>To: PCT L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>Sent: Thu, February 3, 2011 10:08:07 PM
>Subject: [pct-l] Tents vrs Tarps - Numbers do not make sense
>
>
>Hello Everybody,
>
>So over the last day or two since I posted my message (re) asking for folks
>to look at my gear-list I have gotten a half-dozen or so posts (almost all
>off-list) telling me that the best way to go from my 8-pound setup to a
>5-pound setup is to ditch my tent and go with a tarp setup.
>
>I very much understand that is the route a lot of folks are taking.
>
>What I do not understand (could be because my numbers are wrong, or my logic
>is screwed up, or both - giggle) is how exactly this is a significant weight
>savings technique.
>
>I know there is some logic here I am just not getting in what some of you
>guys are suggestion...
>
>So, here is why I have been having issues with this... somebody please knock
>some sense into me as to what I am thinking incorrectly.
>
>
>We got two options before us:
>
>(1) Use a lower rated sleeping bag (say, 20-degree) with a tarp and a ground
>cloth.
>
>(2) Use a higher rated sleeping bag (say, 32-degree) with an enclosed tent.
>
>Now is seems that most everybody agrees that an enclosed tent gives most
>people an additional 8-12 degrees of warmth, so that allows for a lighter
>bag. I have found this to be true, if but for only one reason: if there is a
>cold wind you are going to have an extra bit of protection inside of the
>enclosed tent that you would not get under a tarp. Now I suspect that this
>is where the big argument (not saying there will be one, just needed to use
>that word as it explains the situation) in all of this plays out. In fact, I
>am pretty sure that is where most will say my logic is wrong - which if that
>is the case, awesome, because than I would now where my brain is screwed up
>with all of this.
>
>
>So let me throw out the gear I would use in this example. (could be a lot
>different, I'm just picking some big name products in this UL/SUL world)
>
>Option #1 -- I would use the "Gossamer Gear Polycryo Ground Cloth" [at 1.6
>ounces] and the "Mountain Laurel Designs Cuben Fiber Mini Solo Tarp" [at 3.8
>ounces] for a total of [5.4 ounces] Lots of sleeping bags to choose from but
>lets just pick the Nunatak Arc Alpinist (I would *have* to go with the Epic
>material because it might get wet from side-spray because it is a tarp-only
>setup) so that would be [25 ounces].
>
>Option #2 -- I could use the HMG Echo1 at [24 ounces]. I could of course go
>with the GG One at [18.3 ounces] but the modularity of the Echo1 presents
>better options. I could of course also go with the new super-light ZPacks
>HexaNet Bug Shelter at [11.5 ounces] but again, the Echo1 presents better
>weather defense. And, I know what you are thinking with what I just said,
>just bear with me for a moment. So like before, lots of sleeping bags I
>could pick from, but lets just go with the Nunatak Arc Ghost (I can now go
>with the much lighter Quantum material because I would be inside of an fully
>enclosed tent, so that allows me to save a few ounces in material weight,
>and I do not need a lower-rated sleeping bag either, because I am shielded
>from the weather) so the sleeping bag would weight in at [16 ounces] (rather
>than the 25-oz for option #1)
>
>
>So gear list explained...
>
>
>Option #1 means you are carrying a lighter tarp/groundcloth, however, you
>are taking a bag that is around 10-oz heavier to make up for the lack of
>protection from a tent.
>
>Option #2 means you are carrying a heavier tent, however, you are able to
>take a bag that is around 10-oz lighter - because you have the protection of
>a tent which means lighter bag material and you can go with a higher rated
>bag because you are out of the direct wind.
>
>
>
>So if I were to throw numbers at both of these two options (by the way, I am
>6'2 in height so everything has to be 'large' sized):
>
>(Option #1) Bag + tarp  = 30.4 ounces.
>
>(Option #2) Bag + tent = 40 ounces (if I went with the HMG). 34.3 if I went
>the GG1, and 27.5 ounces if I went with the ZPacks.
>
>
>Going with the bomb-proof HMG shelter, the difference between a tarp setup
>and a tent setup is [9.6 ounces] in favor of the *tarp* system
>
>Going with the much more popular GG1, the differences would be [3.9 ounces]
>in favor of the *tarp* system
>
>Going with the ZPacks HexaNet Bug Shelter, the difference would be [2.9
>ounces] in favor of the *tent* system
>
>
>Everybody is always saying that the tarp system is the way to go, but if you
>follow the logic (at least what is probably my flawed logic) the numbers
>just do not make that huge of a difference.
>
>9-ounces (if you figure I use the heaviest of the tents) is very very little
>difference in the large scope of things... and in no way takes you from that
>8 or 9 pound pack to a 5 pound pack. So, what gives?
>
>
>I know there has to be some logical flaw in all of this... but I am failing
>to see where my numbers are wrong..
>
>Maybe I am overthinking the whole bag-usage-logic or something.
>
>
>Could somebody out there with some real experience of making the switch from
>tent to tarp please look them over for me and beat me straight.... because
>surely an enclosed tent cannot be lighter overall than a tarp setup. Right?
>
>
>Totally lost in numbers...
>John
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