[pct-l] SPOT messenger vs McMurdo PLB

giniajim jplynch at crosslink.net
Mon Mar 28 13:39:49 CDT 2011


Good post Toby, and you've got the right instincts imho.  Good on ya!

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Toby Maxwell 
  To: dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com 
  Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net 
  Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 2:08 PM
  Subject: Re: [pct-l] SPOT messenger vs McMurdo PLB


  It may sound hypocritical but I agree with everyone.  In response to
  Hillary, I guess my response is that I am not as hardcore (I would accept a
  life saving heli) but, really the only reason why I will have it is because
  my mom said, "I will be much less stressed for the next 5 months if you let
  me buy you this expensive toy" given the circumstance my response was a
  semi-reluctant yes.  Although I am also funding the trip by my own work and
  savings, there is something to be said for helping people who got me to
  where I am feel as good about it as I do.  I guess because I am 99.99% sure
  I will not even touch the thing, if I do end up getting it, I'll call it my
  sentimental item for the trip, maybe put an 'I <3 mom' sticker on it for
  good measure.

  -toby

  On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 12:04 PM, <dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com> wrote:

  >
  >
  > Nicely said.  And I bet you make it all the way to Canada if you choose to.
  >
  > Ps.  We were backpacking 35 years ago in Levis and 60lb packs. Cell phones,
  > spots, and personal computers did not exist. Not much cash, believe me. We
  > did have a map and compass and cooked over fire or a later a Svea.  We had
  > a
  > great time.
  >
  > Collin Fletcher hiked all over the place including the 1st documented
  > through hike of the Grand Canyon (read Man Who Walked Through Time).  He
  > did
  > not have any of this stuff, he did have a bunch of stuff though so I am not
  > sure if he would carry it today or not, maybe.  So completely ironic that
  > he
  > was hit by a car later in life which ultimately lead to his demise.
  >
  > I also totally understand and can relate to and respect Mendo's comments.
  > I am sure I was given 9 lives and have used up about 8 1/2 so I am more
  > cautious now. Youth will get you a long way.
  >
  > Dave
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
  > On Behalf Of Hillary Schwirtlich
  > Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:24 AM
  > To: Paul Robison
  > Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
  > Subject: Re: [pct-l] SPOT messenger vs McMurdo PLB
  >
  > On money:
  >
  > I've had this problem on this list before. It's hard sometimes to think
  > about other people's money situation, I guess. But I have saved enough
  > money
  > over the last year and a half to hike the trail with the amount of gear I
  > feel I need, replace the stuff that gets broken, to have a reasonable
  > amount
  > of zero days, to feed myself and eat relatively well in town, and to donate
  > to trail angels when they help me out. I'm not going to be eating at 5 star
  > restaurants or staying in a hotel every time I'm in town, but I'm not
  > trying
  > to hike the trail for $1,000 either. I am young, however, and have not had
  > enough years/experience to get an extremely well paying job, and having
  > been
  > an volunteer for the last two years, I haven't really had much of a paying
  > job at all. So I don't have enough money to buy top of the line gear in
  > everything, and I certainly don't have enough money to spend $200 (which
  > was
  > exactly the cost of my ULA backpack, which I am going to use every day) on
  > new devices that people haven't needed for hundreds of years.
  >
  > As for "being in for a hard through hike," like I said, I've been a
  > "professional" volunteer for the last two years - I'm used to getting a lot
  > out of my money.
  >
  > I agree with Diane (I'm sorry, I don't know your trail name). One of the
  > reasons I'm on the trail to get away from gadgets and as much as I can from
  > the "buy buy buy!" mentality we're mostly surrounded with. Like she said,
  > keep the helicopter if it gives me some peace and quiet. Dying in the woods
  > wouldn't be too terrible of a way to go, in my opinion.
  >
  > So I know only a few people on the list are going to read this, but I want
  > to respectfully suggest that it would be nice if we heard a little less
  > "money isn't an issue! if you really wanted to do this hike, you'd spend
  > $___ on this new ___." I understand if someone else wants to spend their
  > money that way. But I'm not going to and I'm not going to feel bad about it
  > either.
  >
  > On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Paul Robison
  > <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>wrote:
  >
  > > Hillary,
  > > The spot is 100$. And sub. Is 99$
  > >
  > > A traditional PLB is about 500$... So I thought spot was amazingly cheap
  > > for what it does.
  > >
  > > I certainly wouldn't say they are 'really expensive'. If 100$ is a
  > stretch
  > > for you;  youre in for a hard thru hike.  That's less than the cost of
  > one
  > > zero.
  > >
  > > Just talked to two couples I hiked with last year and both spent over
  > > 16,000 ... That sufficiently scared me... I'm even considering skipping
  > > Warner springs.
  > >
  > > Sent from my iPod
  > >
  > > On 2011-03-27, at 3:36 PM, Hillary Schwirtlich <
  > > hillary.schwirtlich at gmail.com> wrote:
  > >
  > > > I think this comes back to the central question of heavy trucking vs
  > > light
  > > > vs ultralight hiking: how do you mitigate risk? It's a question that
  > > doesn't
  > > > just have to do with weight though. If you are concerned about being
  > > > prepared for everything, you're going to bring more options for bailing
  > > > yourself out of sticky situations.
  > > >
  > > > I don't have a SPOT and I don't plan on getting one. That's because
  > > they're
  > > > really expensive and they aren't something I think is 100% necessary
  > for
  > > my
  > > > style of hiking. Partly because I'm almost never alone, I rarely stray
  > > off
  > > > trail, and I always have a map. In other words, I'm usually as prepared
  > > as I
  > > > think I can be, I have enough experience to know how to deal with most
  > > > common backcountry situations (i.e. cold, wet weather, etc), and I'm
  > not
  > > > like the guy was in 127 Hours - I see the need for human companionship
  > > and
  > > > letting someone know where I'm going.
  > > >
  > > > What happened to your friend's uncle was definitely unexpected and very
  > > sad.
  > > > But that was also a very rare case. Maybe it's foolhardy of me to say
  > > that I
  > > > doubt I will be having a heart attack soon (I'm 23, female, have always
  > > been
  > > > active and eaten well, and have no family history of heart problems).
  > But
  > > I
  > > > feel that the risk of that or something else like it happening to me,
  > > where
  > > > I don't have someone who can go hike for help, is small enough not to
  > > > warrant needing a SPOT. Just like the likelihood of me developing an
  > > > allergic reaction to a bee sting on the trail when I've never had an
  > > > allergic reaction to one before is possible, but unlikely, and so I'm
  > not
  > > > going to go get a prescription for an EpiPen just in case.
  > > >
  > > > That being said, I don't think you're over prepared if you do decide to
  > > get
  > > > a SPOT device or something like it. I can see that having that extra
  > > safety
  > > > would make someone feel much more comfortable, especially if they spent
  > a
  > > > lot of time alone. But I certainly don't think that you're a terrible
  > > person
  > > > for not having one. If everyone who every went hiking absolutely needed
  > a
  > > > signaling device, 1. people wouldn't have gone hiking until the last
  > > however
  > > > many years since those signaling devices were invented, and 2. only
  > > people
  > > > who could afford the device would experience outdoor sports. And I'm
  > all
  > > for
  > > > as many people as possible exploring and appreciating the natural
  > world.
  > > >
  > > > I guess it's also a question of HYOH. :)
  > > >
  > > > On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 12:00 PM, Edward Anderson <
  > > mendoridered at yahoo.com>wrote:
  > > >
  > > >> Jim,
  > > >> I always advise people to "expect the unexpected"- and try to be
  > > prepared
  > > >> for
  > > >> it. Trees can fall unexpectedly, for no obvious reason - even on a
  > nice
  > > day
  > > >> with
  > > >> little or no breeze. Boulders can come down, starting slides, as snow
  > > and
  > > >> ice melt from high above the trail. Anyone who has spent a lot of
  > time,
  > > >> hiking,
  > > >> climbing, and riding, in the back country, as I have, has experienced
  > > the
  > > >> unexpected. You don't have to be taking foolish risks to have the
  > > >> unexpected happen. While I lived in Mendocino an uncle of a close
  > friend
  > > >> tragically died while hiking in the Yola Bolies alone.  He was a
  > healthy
  > > >> and fit
  > > >> guy and knew the area well. He died of a Cardiac Arrest. he had no way
  > > >> of summoning help. This happened about 15 years ago. If he had along a
  > > way
  > > >> of
  > > >> summoning help he might have survived. Now that the technology has
  > > become
  > > >> available I hold that it is foolish not to take advantage of it. It
  > > might
  > > >> be the
  > > >> life of someone else that you save.
  > > >>
  > > >> MendoRider
  > > >>
  > > >>
  > > >>
  > > >>
  > > >> ________________________________
  > > >> From: "enyapjr at comcast.net" <enyapjr at comcast.net>
  > > >> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
  > > >> Sent: Sun, March 27, 2011 11:12:17 AM
  > > >> Subject: [pct-l] SPOT messenger vs McMurdo PLB
  > > >>
  > > >>> ...only a fool would not bring one, or some other reliable rescue
  > > >> signaling
  > > >>> device.
  > > >>
  > > >> Sorry, MendoRider, but I definitely have to disagree with that
  > > statement!
  > > >> With a moderate amount of experience, sufficient or adequate gear for
  > > the
  > > >> conditions
  > > >> expected or possible, and the common sense to know when to hunker down
  > > or
  > > >> bail
  > > >> out or
  > > >>
  > > >> not try something too 'extreme' - one wouldn't have any need for
  > > >> "rescue"...
  > > >> Not having a SPOT or PLB does not necessarily mean that one is stupid
  > or
  > > a
  > > >> fool!
  > > >>
  > > >>> The successful TV program "I Shouldn't be Alive" would not exist if
  > all
  > > >> of
  > > >>> those
  > > >>>
  > > >>> people had had a way of calling for rescue.
  > > >>
  > > >> And how did many of those people get into such 'situations' that they
  > > >> needed
  > > >> 'rescue'?
  > > >> Sometimes it's the opposite - one goes ahead and does something one
  > > >> normally
  > > >> wouldn't
  > > >> because they do have a rescue device with them...  Plus ask some SAR
  > > folks
  > > >> what
  > > >> they
  > > >> honestly think of these rescue devices - too many times that 'rescue'
  > > >> button is
  > > >> pushed
  > > >> without THINKING over the situation first - or developing skills
  > needed
  > > >> ahead of
  > > >> time...
  > > >> The most important piece of 'gear' one carries? - the gray matter in
  > > one's
  > > >> skull
  > > >> - it's
  > > >> seems amazing that so many people nowadays don't use it (but makes for
  > > >> "successful TV"
  > > >> programs, however)...
  > > >>
  > > >> There's also another 'popular' TV program - "A 1,000 Ways to Die"; and
  > > >> let's not
  > > >> forget
  > > >> about the annual "Darwin Awards", either...  I doubt a rescue device
  > > would
  > > >> have
  > > >> helped
  > > >> the majority of those people...
  > > >>
  > > >> What was my 'rescue device' carried many years ago (before
  > > 'electronics') &
  > > >> never once
  > > >>
  > > >> used as such - the mirror in my small sighting compass...
  > > >> All that said - I'll probably carry a SPOT - but as a COMMUNICATION
  > > device,
  > > >> NOT
  > > >> as a
  > > >>
  > > >> 'rescue' device...  It will be for the family & friends 'peace of
  > mind',
  > > >> and for
  > > >> me in
  > > >> the sense of 'sharing' my trek with them daily...
  > > >> YMMV, HYOH, ad infinitum etceteras......
  > > >>
  > > >> Happy trails!!!
  > > >> Jim (PITA)
  > > >> _______________________________________________
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