[pct-l] OpSacks

Wed Apr 10 20:23:07 CDT 2013

Mendorider,
                Yeah, the tests could have been tainted. I reviewed the test procedures for about 5 minutes and found one spot that could have produced some tainted results. But, generally it looks pretty solid. And, it is based on fairly clean chemistry.  Nylon and most other plastic films are known to leak other substances. For example, water supplys disappearing from old shelters...turns out it was evaporating right through the plastic as they found out in the later 60's.
                Coyote are a pretty good test, I guess.  I am more prone to trust anything using bear encounters, though.
                I have heard of bear charms. Camphor and cedar oil were both recommended. Never bothered with either, myself. Had more problems with coons and deer than bear though we have our share around.
                My thoughts only. . .
                                jdm

From: Edward Anderson [mailto:mendoridered at yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:05 PM
To: Jim Marco; pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] OpSacks

Hi Jim,

My dog has an excellent sense of smell for food. When I have time,I will have to run tests with him. I can't help but doubt what that article says. But, I will test (I am a "tester" by nature) - and also, I will test the coyotes that are abundant around where I live in Agua Dulce. My tests have only been with rodents. Their sense of smell is said to be equal to that of dogs - and neither rodents nor dogs are nearly as good at finding food as are bears. On the PCT, while riding through N. Calif., Oregon, and Washington I sometimes noticed that the hikers were hanging their food bags high in trees. I just used camouflaged OPSaks and also surrounded my tent and camp location with bear charms with a diameter of about 40 to 50 feet. That worked for me. I have been using the "bear charms" (mothballs in cotton tobacco sacks) in bear country for about 25 years now. The bears dislike the smell of the mothballs - the opposite of food. Where I come from, people use mothballs to discourage bears from getting into their garbage cans.

MendoRider

________________________________
From: Jim Marco <jdm27 at cornell.edu<mailto:jdm27 at cornell.edu>>
To: "pct-l at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net>" <pct-l at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] OpSacks

Hey Mendo-Rider, you should take a look at the article. Basically the dogs they were using could not see anything. The percentage of hits to misses was way to high to account for by any other means except by smell.
    Interesting read and well worth the money.
    My thoughts only . . .
        jdm

-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net> [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net>] On Behalf Of Edward Anderson
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:27 PM
To: Ed Jarrett; pct-l at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] OpSacks

Hi Ed Jarrett,

OPSaks were very effective during my ride of the PCT. I mostly lived on the PCT for over six months. With a horse, I can't hitch into towns as the hikers do - my "0" days were mostly on the trail.  I resupplied myself by caching. I learned a lot - especially when I came, after 10 days, to my food cache near Beldon Town. All 30 pounds of processed horse feed was gone. I had stored it in the heat-sealed Food-Saver bags. My food, stored in an OPSak was untouched. The Ranger there said that it was the work of rodents. From then on I used OPSaks for all food. - mine and my horse's.  I have done a lot of testing on rodents in my barn.  They do get into ZipLocks but don't violate the OPSaks. They also fail to get into some of the pre-packaged foods. Apparently they are not smart enough to SEE, and then realize what is inside. I was testing various foods that are placed on a rodent run and laying side-by-side for several days. Pre-packaged cheeses and energy  bars went first and eventually odoriferous foods in the double ZipLocks. After 10 days the OPSaks were OK. Of course, both were transparent containers.

Now, I will describe what I did while on the PCT and in bear country.  (In the Sierra parks, I did use the bear cans as required) .  Let me note that bears and dogs are both smart and can SEE what is inside a transparent bag.  I camoflagued the OPSaks and also located them well away from my camp - as you do with the bear cans.  Without the camouflage, I was concerned that a wandering bear might just see the sack and walk close enough to investigate what was inside. Of course, they would tear it open just as a dog would. They are smart!

MendoRider-Hiker

________________________________
From: Ed Jarrett <edjarrett at msn.com<mailto:edjarrett at msn.com>>
To: PCT List <pct-l at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:01 AM
Subject: [pct-l] OpSacks

Backpacking Light has an article out now on the effectiveness of odor proof bags.  And the result does not look too good.  The K9's involved in the test seemed not to care if the order was contained in an OpSack or a regular Ziploc.  A link to the article is attached, but you must be a member to read it.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/odor_proof_bags_study.html?m=00726_uzhpVTCPYGZpAwxyqufeQ#.UWWWS6IkiSo
Ed Jarrett (Eeyore) Blog: http://aclayjar.blogspot.com/  <http://aclayjar.blogspot.com/%C2%A0> Twitter: https://twitter.com/EdJarrett53 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ed.jarrett.71
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