[pct-l] [John Muir Trail] River Crossing

Tue Jan 31 12:57:24 CST 2017

Hey, Roleigh!

You’ve got to join me on one of our Snow Advanced Courses up Whit and over Forester so we can test our shoe’s abilities side-by-side on the same slope!

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

 <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org> ned at mountaineducation.org 

From: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 10:15 AM
To: John Muir Trail YahooGroups <johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com>
Cc: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] River Crossing

I want to give a mid-way counterpoint.  I've done the JMT 9 times now, and before that the High Sierra Trail 8 times.  Ned and John prefer those 3-4 pound (pair) of boots even in good weather hiking.  The Keen Mid-height Targhee boots John refers to, those I wore on 6 JMT hikes (including 2010 and 2011 JMTs). Those heels are very stiff and they bite down fine in the snow except when it is very ice-covered and hard.  If the conditions warrant, bring the Trail Crampons Ned recommends along with boots like the Targhee, and I can't imagine any problems that you'll encounter that you wouldn't have the same problem with the 3-4 pound (pair) of boots.  The Keen mid-height Targhee boots weigh only 1 lb per boot.  I now prefer the Lowa Renegade GTX boots.  I found that the Keen boots are not as comfortable as the Lowa boots.  I tried hiking with the heavier Lowa boots and just don't like them.  

Ned has convinced me that the Kahtoola Trail Crampons are superior to the Hillsound Trail Crampons if you are breaking trail on those high passes in high snowpack (compacted) conditions.

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Visit my Google Profile <https://plus.google.com/+RoleighMartin/about/>  (lots of very interesting research links)
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On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 10:05 AM, ned at mountaineducation.org <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org>  [johnmuirtrail] <johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com <mailto:johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com> > wrote:

Well said, Charlie!

Here is the problem with that idea from a design and practical function point of view:

It’s the way chains or hiking crampons mount on trail runners. When you put either on edge, what does the bitting into the snow slope when the teeth are so far from the edge of the shoe?

The edge of the shoe and not so much the teeth! There are two reasons why trail runners do not reliably hold to the slope even with chains or hiking crampons on, soft edges and distant teeth. Chain rolling or drifting just further exacerbates this problem by allowing the teeth to move further away from the edge of the shoe (that can’t hold an edge anyway).

Hey, all of you designer-engineers out there, make a laterally adjustable hiking crampon so the user can slide the teeth out to the side of their chosen footwear!

Hell, Mountain Education should make one (along with the pack and tent designs it’s already working on!)…

Ned Tibbits, Director

Mountain Education, Inc.

 <mailto:ned at mountaineducation.org> ned at mountaineducation.org 

From: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com <mailto:johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com>  [mailto:johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com <mailto:johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of charliepolecat
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 8:56 AM
To: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com <mailto:johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com> 
Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] River Crossing

There is no question that boots are better for gripping in soft or hard-packed snow than trail runners, but in these days of fast-packing where the aim has become to cover 20 miles a day with not much more than a super day-pack for supplies, carrying a spare set of heavy boots for the 'just in case' situation just isn't on.

What's required is some kind of add-on to trail runners than will provide all the side traction that Ned wisely advises without losing the benefit of soft shoes and not having to lug those grandad boots for the what if situation.

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Posted by: Roleigh Martin <roleigh at pobox.com <mailto:roleigh at pobox.com> > 

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