[cdt-l] cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 40

[Remy Levin]

Flat Feet- 
If your Ice axe has worked while hiking so far, It will be just fine for the CDT. The slopes encountered that are under snow are not that steep (relatively), and the only sections you might need an ice axe on are glacier and the bob (SoBo), or the san juans in Colorado (NoBo).
As for the mailing box, a trick we've used is to cut 2 long slices out of a cardboard box, tape them down to each other, one  on each side of the axe. You  end up with long flatish "box" that can be sent thru the mail. Just don't forget to pad the adze!
Happy hikin',
Remy. 

linda butcher <mountainbliss at alltel.net> wrote: I don't want to belabor our Esbit story, so here goes for field expedient
cooking:  Clothes dryer lint with petroleum jelly.  The combo smokes, but
what the heck, the price is right.
 If we are about finished with the cooking fuel info, I would like to
introduce another topic - The ice axe.  My ice axe is 85cm.  The size works
for me, since I am 6'4" and I can use it like a trekking pole.  However, the
problems I have with it are finding a box long enough to mail it home and
back if I need it again; it's longer than my back pack; and its weight.
Also, it might be too long for steep climbs. Not being familier with the
climbs on the CDT, would someone with knowledge of them give me some ice axe
requirement advice?  Thanks.
Gene Butcher - Flat Feet
----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 12:56 AM
Subject: cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 40


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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Slyatpct at aol.com)
>    2. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Ken Powers)
>    3. Re: esbits (Anitra Kass)
>    4. Esbits (Francis Tapon)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 13:14:13 EST
> From: Slyatpct at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> In a message dated 12/28/2006 12:52:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> footslogger03 at yahoo.com writes:
>
> But I  too would like to know if there is a way to refill/recylcle the
empty
> metal  cannisters
>
>
> I know a guy who made a male/male valve system using the 1lb Coleman
propane
> to refill his Primus canisters to save money.  He's attach the  two and
let
> liquid/gas flow down into the Primus canister. It worked well  until one
> blew-up in his wife's pack whike she was hiking on a hot, sunny  day.  He
attributed
> the 'explosion" to over filling.   Fortunately, she wasn't injured, but if
> I'm not mistaken her pack was  damaged.
>
> It seems taking a couple partially full canisters on a weekend trip would
be
> safest.
>
> Sly
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>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 10:43:45 -0800
> From: "Ken Powers" 
> Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> To: 
> Message-ID: <025501c72ab0$1bced920$6401a8c0 at GottaWalk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> We use the partials for weekend trips. Yeh, we carry a couple on the short
hikes. Or remodel your kitchen. ;) Refilling them yourself sounds dangerous
to me.
>
> I hate having to put my warm hands on a canister on an icy morning. I have
made it a habit to sleep with my canister in cold weather. I think the
problem is the cold, not the altitude.
>
> We rationalize that for long hikes we are using so few cans that adding a
canister or 2 every week to the garbage isn't too bad. We have heard that we
can take the emptys to REI Berkeley for recycling. But we have never checked
up on that. It may just be a rumor.
>
> Ken
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Slyatpct at aol.com
>   To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
>   Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 10:14 AM
>   Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
>
>
>   In a message dated 12/28/2006 12:52:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
footslogger03 at yahoo.com writes:
>     But I too would like to know if there is a way to refill/recylcle the
empty metal cannisters
>   I know a guy who made a male/male valve system using the 1lb Coleman
propane to refill his Primus canisters to save money.  He's attach the two
and let liquid/gas flow down into the Primus canister. It worked well until
one blew-up in his wife's pack whike she was hiking on a hot, sunny day.  He
attributed the 'explosion" to over filling.  Fortunately, she wasn't
injured, but if I'm not mistaken her pack was damaged.
>
>   It seems taking a couple partially full canisters on a weekend trip
would be safest.
>
>   Sly
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 19:55:01 -0800 (PST)
> From: Anitra Kass 
> Subject: Re: [cdt-l] esbits
> To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <649185.56889.qm at web34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I know I am late on joining in on this one but I use the bottom portion (2
inches maybe) of a coke can with holes punched around so that air can get to
the fire...it's worked well so far and it's super light and free since I
drink coke incessantly.
>   NITRO
>
> Karen Somers  wrote:
>   Linda,
>
> I've found the best esbit stoves can be purchased at
> BackpackingLight.com. They are the Esbit folding wing
> stoves, one is steel (1.3 oz) and the other is
> titanium (0.5 oz). The steel version only lasts about
> 2 months before finally wearing thin on the hinges and
> breaking. But for $3 each, who's going to complain?
> The titanium version is $20, but should not break (I
> haven't used that one yet).
>
> I also have a friend who thru-hiked the CDT just
> cooking on the ground either holding his pot over the
> esbit or using rocks. I've tried this and can't stand
> it, but I think the little folding stoves are genious.
> The hiking pole idea is good, too.
>
> Steel version:
>
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/esbit_folding_wing_
stove.html
>
> Titanium version:
>
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/titanium-esbit-wing
-stove.html
>
> Nocona
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 22:04:10 -0800
> From: "Francis Tapon" 
> Subject: [cdt-l] Esbits
> To: 
> Message-ID:
> <001a01c72b0f$4328f550$660fa8c0 at redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Flat Feet has several outstanding ideas there. I especially like the idea
of
> pre-soaking to save fuel. An extremist might just soak and eat food cold
to
> leave behind all the cooking stuff! (Has anyone tried this?)
>
> Here's an idea to let you leave the Esbit stove behind. Instead of finding
> flat rocks, use your tarp/tent stakes!
>
> 1) Shove at least 3 stakes into the dirt to create an even platform to
place
> the pot.
>
> 2) Place the Esbit tablet on a small piece of aluminum foil under the pot.
>
> 3) Light Esbit and voila!
>
> A variation is instead of using a tiny piece of foil, use a large piece of
> aluminum foil to create a windscreen. Mold the foil around the stakes.
>
> If the dirt is so hard that the stakes don't go in too deep (but they do
go
> in), then slip a rock under the foil to bring the Esbit closer to the pot.
>
> I agree that Esbits have a slightly unpleasant smell. I always keep them
in
> a ziplock on an outside pouch of my pack so the smell doesn't permeate the
> pot or food.
>
> One more thing: instead of throwing dirt on the Esbit to blow it out, just
> blow it out with your breath. That way when you re-light it the Esbit will
> burn as efficiently as possible. (OK, I realize a little dirt probably
won't
> make any difference in how it burns, but blowing it out seems a more
elegant
> and tidy solution, and we know thru-hikers are all about tidiness!) :-)
>
> Happy New Year!
>
> Francis Tapon
> Check out this 2 minute video:
>
http://www.mydream.tv/dream_category.php?dc=66f041e16a60928b05a7e228a89c3799
>
> Learn about my book, Hike Your Own Hike: 7 Life Lessons from Backpacking
> Across America, at: http://www.FrancisTapon.com/book
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: linda butcher [mailto:mountainbliss at alltel.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 8:25 PM
> > To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 34
> >
> > Nocona,
> > Esbit was my choice on the PCT and will also be what I will use on the
CDT
> > this year.  To make this choice even lighter, I am thinking about making
a
> > "cat can Esbit stove," similar to the alcohol cat can stove.  Once can
> > eliminate the stove and just find some flat rocks to surround the Esbit
> > tablets that are high enough to support a pot.  I used the rocks plan at
> > first, but some times I spent too much time finding the right size
rocks,
> > so
> > I broke down and bought the Esbit stove:)  I used less than one esbit
> > tablet
> > per meal.  I often soaked the food before hand in an empty peanut butter
> > jar
> > while still on the trail. To save fuel, I put the soaked noodle in the
pot
> > and  removed the pot from the stove once it started boiling hard (if I
> > trusted the water to start with, if not let boil for a minute longer),
> > then
> > added the cheese, etc., covered the pot, and set it aside to thicken and
> > cool down.  Often the tablet did not totally burn up, so I would throw
> > some
> > dirt on it, and when cool, saved it.  After awhile I had enough little
> > tablet pieces to cook another meal.  I carried enough Esbit tablets to
> > last
> > in between mail drops.  The stove, tin foil wind shield, a weeks supply
of
> > tablets, spoon, cleaning rag and scrubbie, soap and a small 1/2 oz
> > container
> > of denatured alcohol (before lighting, just a drop or two on the tablet
in
> > windy conditions) all fit into my small titanium pot.  The only thing I
> > did
> > not like about the Esbit tablets is the smell that sometimes chases you
> > around the pot, and it does take a little longer to boil water than
other
> > stove choices. Oh, one other idea to lighten ones load: On the PCT,  I
> > hiked
> > with two Canadians for a few days, one used his trekking poles for his
> > stove.  Here's how he did it:  He covered the bottom section of his
poles
> > with tin foil, laid them side by side on the ground far enough apart to
> > support his pot, and lit up an Esbit tablet under the pot.  It worked
for
> > him, his trail name was "Papa Grande."
> > Okay, I get long winded sometimes when reminiscencing -hope these ideas
> > might help someone.
> > Flat Feet, AT-90, PCT-00, "CDT-07"
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 8:47 PM
> > Subject: cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 34
> >
> >
> > > Send cdt-l mailing list submissions to
> > > cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > >
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > cdt-l-request at backcountry.net
> > >
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > cdt-l-owner at backcountry.net
> > >
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of cdt-l digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > >    1. Does using GPS diminish the experience? (Paul Magnanti)
> > >    2. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Alistair and Gail Des Moulins)
> > >    3. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Remy Levin)
> > >    4. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Karen Somers)
> > >    5. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Ginny & Jim Owen)
> > >    6. Re: Does using GPS diminish the experience? (Chris)
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 10:14:31 -0800 (PST)
> > > From: Paul Magnanti 

> > > Subject: [cdt-l] Does using GPS diminish the experience?
> > > To: CDT MailingList 
> > > Message-ID: <303684.40713.qm at web31806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> > >
> > > This type of discussion ends up being what I call
> > > "Thru-hiker angels on the head of a pin". Something
> > > that is only discussed on hiking forums and is
> > > theoretical. :)
> > >
> > >
> > > In reality, whether you take a GPS or don't take a GPS
> > > is not going to diminish your experience. Take one,
> > > don't take one.
> > >
> > > The kind of experience you have on the the trail is
> > > what you put into the hike. The sunsets are still
> > > awesome, the remoteness of the trail is still
> > > wonderful, the journey is still rewarding.
> > >
> > > Just enjoy the hike one way or another. I did not take
> > > a GPS, friends of mine did. All of us had one hell of
> > > an experience.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ************************************************************
> > > The true harvest of my life is intangible.... a little stardust
> > > caught, a portion of the rainbow I have clutched
> > > --Thoreau
> > > http://www.magnanti.com
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 2
> > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:27:58 -0700
> > > From: "Alistair and Gail Des Moulins" 
> > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > > To: , 
> > > Message-ID: <003801c7292c$55e21c10$528dba89 at your4f1261a8e5>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> > > reply-type=original
> > >
> > > Gail and I used a Fat Pika alcohol stove during our 5 months on the
CDT
> > this
> > > year. See http://pbase.com/image/72011334/original for a photo of our
> > stove
> > > and stand in Wyoming's Great Basin.
> > > We used an MSR XGK white gas stove on our 6 month thru hike of the PCT
> > in
> > > 2003.
> > > On the CDT on most days we had hot cereal and a hot drink for
breakfast
> > and
> > > cooked a meal and a hot drink for supper. We used between 5 and 6
ounces
> > of
> > > fuel per day depending on water temperature and other factors. Each
meal
> > and
> > > drink usually was 4 + cups of water. The stove would easily handle
> > boiling
> > 6
> > > cups of water and on a couple of nights we used it to melt snow but
that
> > > requires almost double the fuel (and that's, of course, true for any
> > stove).
> > > On the PCT with the MSR we could get 10 to 11 days cooking from a
litre
> > (35
> > > oz) of white gas.
> > > On the CDT we did two 12 day sections without resupply (East Glacier
to
> > > Lincoln, and Dubois to Atlantic City, yes we are not fast hikers and
we
> > > wanted to have spare days in the Winds). On these 2 sections we
carried
> > six
> > > 12 oz bottles of HEET.
> > > For these 12 day loads the weight of six bottles of HEET and the Fat
> > Pika
> > > stove exceeded the weight of the MSR stove, screen + stove parts + 12
> > days
> > > of white gas that we would have carried had we had the MSR. After 3 or
4
> > > days the weight of systems would have been about the same and after
that
> > the
> > > Alcohol system total weight is less than the corresponding MSR system
> > > weight.
> > > Prior to our CDT trip I did tests of fuel usage and boil times using
the
> > Fat
> > > Pika and the MSR. The Fat Pika used nearly double the volume of fuel
> > > compared to the MSR. The boil times of the Fat Pika were faster than
the
> > > MSR. Also water boiled faster using a larger diameter pot - so if you
> > take
> > > a 2 litre capacity pot, an 8" diameter pot will require less fuel than
a
> > 7"
> > > diameter one.
> > > I realised we'd be carrying a larger total weight of stove and fuel on
a
> > few
> > > days on the trip if we used the Fat Pika instead of the MSR but
> > generally
> > > we'd be carrying less weight than the MSR.
> > > On balance, although our MSR had served us very well on the PCT, I
> > decided
> > > to take the Fat Pika on the CDT because we'd not even have to worry
> > about
> > > blocked jets, failing pump washers and leaking 'O' rings.
> > > On the CDT we found HEET was available at almost all town stops, white
> > gas
> > > was not so available and was usually in gallon containers when we saw
> it.
> > > On the PCT with the MSR, we'd usually find a 'hiker can' of white gas
in
> > > towns. If not we'd buy a gallon and leave the rest for following
hikers.
> > > With only about 20 hikers going each way a year on the CDT this system
> > would
> > > not work so well and I think you'd end up buying a lot more gallons of
> > white
> > > gas.
> > >
> > > For more details on the Fat Pika stove see
> > > http://users.sisqtel.net/losthiker/pikastove/
> > >
> > > Alistair
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Karen Somers" 
> > > To: 
> > > Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 8:48 PM
> > > Subject: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > >
> > >
> > > > Ginny wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "We never had to carry more than one
> > > > full 20 oz Pepsi bottle for the two of us."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This brings up a topic that I am have a question
> > > > about......I'm looking for a two-person alcohol stove.
> > > > My past attempts to find an alcohol stove that will
> > > > cook a pot of food for two hikers were unsuccessful.
> > > > We've tried several different al. stove designs, but
> > > > it takes too much fuel to get a one liter plus pot of
> > > > water boiling.  So, my husband and I have always used
> > > > white gas when we are cooking for two.  It just proves
> > > > more economical all the way around.  However, we heard
> > > > that there was a new al. stove built for two (rumor at
> > > > the ADZ party).  Ginny and others, what alcohol stove
> > > > design do you use for two people?
> > > >
> > > > Nocona
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 3
> > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:06:04 -0800 (PST)
> > > From: Remy Levin 
> > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > > To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > Message-ID: <20061226210604.31571.qmail at web52402.mail.yahoo.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > >
> > > We used the same alcohol stove we use on the PCT on the CDT this
summer.
> > With over 7000 miles on it (it was purchased in hot springs, NC) It's
beat
> > up , but still works great. It has  a capacity to hold  about 2 ounces
of
> > Heet at a time, which was definitely enough for cooking 2+, sometimes
> > three
> > liptons at a time.
> > > A few tips that save on gas and cook food faster: put the noodles in
the
> > water a couple min. before putting the pot on the fire. Always use a
> > windscreen and avoid  windy spots as much as possible. Let the noodles
sit
> > for a few min. after the stove is out- they don't have to cook
completely
> > that way, as they will soften by soaking up water. plus, they'll be nice

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