[Cdt-l] Cdt-l Digest, Vol 76, Issue 37
Travis Naibert
tnaibert at gmail.com
Wed Jan 22 21:42:41 CST 2014
"I wouldn't try that section of the CDT without a GPS" -Trew
I am sure that Trew is a great person and that I would enjoy hiking with
him. I am also sure he didn't mean the above statement in exactly the way I
interpreted it. But if I were someone new to this forum and I read Trew's
statement I would probably start to get a little bit worried about hiking
the Montana CDT section he is referring to unless i was familiar with GPS.
Especially because he posts a lot in the forum and seems like a
pretty knowledgeable hiker.
There has been so much discussion recently about GPS waypoints, how to use
the GPS, how to program the GPS, etc., that I kind of feel like we may be
giving the wrong impression of the CDT. So, with no ill-will towards those
who want to discuss GPS stuff, I would like to point out a few things.
1) People were hiking the CDT before hand-held GPS existed. The trail was
probably even harder to follow back then. Those people did not die.
2) People still hike the CDT without GPS. I did so in 2011. Many people
that year carried GPS but used them sparingly. I would go so far as to say
most people use them sparingly.
3) A lot of people find enjoyment in trying to navigate with just a map and
careful attention to the terrain. It is a skill that you get better at the
more you practice. It is arguably the most exciting thing about the CDT
when compared to trails that don't require any navigation, like the PCT.
Try it!
4) This forum is obviously for information about the CDT, and there are
sections that are easier and sections that are harder. That is worth
discussing. Any pertinent information is worth discussing. But be aware
that the way you say things could potentially scare future-hikers away from
what could otherwise be a dream, a life-long goal, a grand adventure, etc.
So be cautious when choosing words.
When I hiked the PCT I was just finishing college and I had to start in
southern CA in mid-may when my last semester ended, much later than
"normal" start time. The PCT-L had so many dire warnings about lack of
water that I seriously considered skipping the entire desert section and
instead just starting in the sierra nevada. I started May 19th at the
mexican border and hiked the desert. It was hot. It was miles between water
sources. I made it just fine. It was much less scary than I thought it
would be.
I hope all this doesn't come off as rude or angry, because that is not my
intention. I think GPS is a powerful tool. I think Jerry Brown's data for
the trail is going to make it more comfortable for a whole group of hikers
who might have otherwise never considered doing this thru-hike (or any
sections). Despite the fact that I like a lot of solitude on the trail, I
think it is ultimately good for the CDT if more people hike it, enjoy it,
advocate for it, do trail maintenance on it, and ultimately help protect
some of this country's most beautiful land. I would just like people to
know that, with a little navigational practice, there isn't a single step
of the CDT where you should feel required to go out and buy a piece of
technology to carry around in your pocket and help you on your way.
Good luck to the class of 2014!
Suspect
P.S. as a side note for those who are considering the gila versus black
range route debate, I believe the black range got toasted pretty well in
the last fire, whereas the middle fork of the gila seems to have been left
more unscathed (though the mountains around it were torched). flooding and
downed trees will obviously be an issue for a few years. That said, the
middle fork was one of my favorite sections of the entire trail, so if that
is your choice I doubt you'll be disappointed.
On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 5:51 PM, <cdt-l-request at backcountry.net> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: etrax 30 Question- Never Lost (Doug Carlson)
> 2. Re: etrax 30 Question (Larry Swearingen)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 15:41:03 -0700
> From: "Doug Carlson" <doug-sue at centurylink.net>
> Subject: Re: [Cdt-l] etrax 30 Question- Never Lost
> To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <003f01cf17c3$09733340$1c5999c0$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> With a GPS there is never any reason to be lost. I do not use the Ley maps
> when out on the CDT for one reason. No waypoint coordinates on them. I
> use
> Ley's maps to make my own route on my Delorme map program which I print out
> in whatever scale I think is best for that section of trail. Along the
> route I place precise map coordinates at enough places so if I do wander
> off, I can set my GPS for one of those coordinates and get back on trail.
> Those exact coordinates along the route also help me pinpoint my exact
> location at different times.
>
>
>
> When I started in Columbus last year Keith mentioned that I was the first
> one he had seen starting out that didn't have Ley's maps printed out. He
> was going to show me exactly where the water cache we were placing was on
> Ley's maps which I didn't have. I simply set the waypoint for that cache
> on
> that route and 2 days later had no problem in locating the exact bush in
> southern NM where the water jug was hidden. In some ways I am very inept
> with the GPS but where it matters, it works for me.
>
>
>
> I have hiked over 50% of the CDT in Colorado. In Colorado I see no reason
> to use a GPS except for the altimeter, time, date, trip mileage.... Ok,
> maybe there are a few reasons. But Trail Illustrated maps cover the entire
> state of Colorado very well and with the TI maps, compass, no need for a
> GPS
> there. Heading out of Yellowstone through Mack's Inn and that route, GPS
> is
> very helpful. I wouldn't try that section of the CDT without a GPS.
>
>
>
> This is what I would like to see: A GPS that is also loaded with pepper
> spray for that section of trail from around Yellowstone area up to Canada.
> It would be a perfect invention since most hikers would already have their
> GPS units out and on the ready. Of course, by the time on figured out how
> to toggle into the right setting to activate the pepper the bear would
> probably be picking his teeth with the hikers bones.
>
>
>
> -Trew
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: cdt-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:cdt-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of Larry Swearingen
> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 1:47 PM
> To: Tjamrog08
> Cc: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [Cdt-l] etrax 30 Question
>
>
>
> I have been doing that. When I do that I need to setup the gps for
> whatever
> coordinate
>
> system the map uses so I've been practicing for that using my BLM maps and
> also the
>
> Bear Creek maps. I've been looking up the Coordinates to a known Bear
> Creek
> WayPoint
>
> after changing the Coordinate System to that used on the BLM Maps and
> locating that point
>
> on the BLM Map. BLM map coordinate system is not the same as those used on
> BC Maps.
>
> However the gps will convert the way point coordinates to whatever you set
> it up for.
>
>
>
> I agree though. The middle of the Gila Wilderness is not the place to try
> and figure this out
>
> for the first time. :>) I do hope to not get so far lost that I'm off a
> BLM Map. That would be Lost !
>
>
>
> Larry
>
> HooDad
>
>
>
> From: Tjamrog08 <mailto:tjamrog at me.com>
>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 1:07 PM
>
> To: Larry Swearingen <mailto:larry.swearingen at frontier.com>
>
> Cc: Frank Gilliland <mailto:frankgilliland at gmail.com> ;
> cdt-l at backcountry.net
>
> Subject: Re: [Cdt-l] etrax 30 Question
>
>
>
> You got it, HooDad.
>
> Not covered in GPS manuals is being sure to align the settings on your GPS
> with whatever physical maps coordinate format it has along the margins. You
> often need to do a little decimal estimation, as the points along the
> margins are marked in only three or four places.
>
> I was using Jerry Brown's maps, and it took a bit of for me to be able to
> (1) establish a GPS reading where I as at and then (2) relate that to the
> physical map. I'd practice this before I went.
>
> It saved my ass twice when I was so far off the CDT that I was off of the
> narrow corridor on the map. What you do is hit Your exact "lost" location
> on the GPS, then orient the map magnetically, and then see just how far off
> and in what direction you'd have to travel ( usually bushwhack) back to get
> to the CDT.
>
> You must know how to do this, and you might not be calm enough to figure it
> out the process if you start to panic wandering around out there.
>
> Yes, practice.
>
> I would also practice at home navigating to a single waypoint.
>
>
>
> Uncle Tom
>
>
>
> .
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2014 19:50:49 -0500
> From: "Larry Swearingen" <larry.swearingen at frontier.com>
> Subject: Re: [Cdt-l] etrax 30 Question
> To: <bcss at bresnan.net>, "'Tjamrog08'" <tjamrog at me.com>
> Cc: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <8B6086691FFA4275B1D2D0ACE5B0C3D4 at LarryPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hello jerry,
> Thank you for that explanation. It was very helpful.
>
> Larry Hoodad Swearingen
>
> From: bcss at bresnan.net
> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 4:54 PM
> To: 'Larry Swearingen' ; 'Tjamrog08'
> Cc: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: RE: [Cdt-l] etrax 30 Question
>
> If by ?BLM Maps? you are referring to USGS topo maps you are correct, they
> don?t match. The topo maps are all projected in North American Datum of
> 1927 (NAD27) and the BC waypoints are in World Geodetic System of 1984
> (WGS84). For most purposes, NAD83 (North American Datum of 1983) is almost
> identical to WGS84. (NAD 83 is the USA?s implementation of WGS84) If you
> look at the lower left corner of most of these maps it will tell you the
> difference in position between NAD83 and NAD27. The wording is something
> like ?To place on the predicted North American Datum 1983 move the
> projection lines 4 meters north and 51 meters east as shown by the dashed
> corner ticks.?
>
>
>
> The important thing is to match the coordinates on the map you are using
> with the settings in the GPS. To make the Bear Creek waypoints match the
> NAD 27 maps in your Etrex go to ?setup?, ?position format?, ?Map Datum?
> and change the setting to NAD 27 CONUS. Set the Position Format to UTM
> UPS. Then the gps will work with the UTM grid on the older maps. (Remember
> to switch it back for the BC maps.)
>
>
>
> The reason the BC maps are in WGS84 is because it is the easier for users.
> The native language of GPS receivers is WGS84, and they come set up in
> that datum when they are purchased. The Mapbook maps are gridded in WGS84
> to facilitate this.
>
>
>
>
>
> best wishes,
>
>
>
> Jerry Brown
>
> mailto:bcss at bresnan.net
>
> www.bearcreeksurvey.com
>
>
>
> From: cdt-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:cdt-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of Larry Swearingen
> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 1:47 PM
> To: Tjamrog08
> Cc: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [Cdt-l] etrax 30 Question
>
>
>
> I have been doing that. When I do that I need to setup the gps for
> whatever coordinate
>
> system the map uses so I?ve been practicing for that using my BLM maps and
> also the
>
> Bear Creek maps. I?ve been looking up the Coordinates to a known Bear
> Creek WayPoint
>
> after changing the Coordinate System to that used on the BLM Maps and
> locating that point
>
> on the BLM Map. BLM map coordinate system is not the same as those used
> on BC Maps.
>
> However the gps will convert the way point coordinates to whatever you set
> it up for.
>
>
>
> I agree though. The middle of the Gila Wilderness is not the place to try
> and figure this out
>
> for the first time. :>) I do hope to not get so far lost that I?m off a
> BLM Map. That would be Lost !
>
>
>
> Larry
>
> HooDad
>
>
>
> From: Tjamrog08
>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 1:07 PM
>
> To: Larry Swearingen
>
> Cc: Frank Gilliland ; cdt-l at backcountry.net
>
> Subject: Re: [Cdt-l] etrax 30 Question
>
>
>
> You got it, HooDad.
>
> Not covered in GPS manuals is being sure to align the settings on your GPS
> with whatever physical maps coordinate format it has along the margins. You
> often need to do a little decimal estimation, as the points along the
> margins are marked in only three or four places.
>
> I was using Jerry Brown's maps, and it took a bit of for me to be able to
> (1) establish a GPS reading where I as at and then (2) relate that to the
> physical map. I'd practice this before I went.
>
> It saved my ass twice when I was so far off the CDT that I was off of the
> narrow corridor on the map. What you do is hit Your exact "lost" location
> on the GPS, then orient the map magnetically, and then see just how far off
> and in what direction you'd have to travel ( usually bushwhack) back to get
> to the CDT.
>
> You must know how to do this, and you might not be calm enough to figure
> it out the process if you start to panic wandering around out there.
>
> Yes, practice.
>
> I would also practice at home navigating to a single waypoint.
>
>
>
> Uncle Tom
>
>
>
> .
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> End of Cdt-l Digest, Vol 76, Issue 37
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